If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)

Not certain, but probably green. Remember, Martin's Shell involves literally molten iron, so it's hard to prevent the fire starting.
True, and Green timber is available quicker (Cut the tree and plane it to shape). I am not saying it would work 100% and stop fire, but if it hinders it in any way, that is a very good thing for the Union!

I doubt it would be enough, really, though I might be wrong in that. Mind, I might be wrong in this being able to work at all! (the sides of a standard ship of the line were three feet of hard oak or similarly resilient wood.)
And the roof where the pipes would emerge? Plunging fire is not understood at this stage, so probably a standard thickness roof? I dunno much about ironclad construction so... Yeah. May work, but was more a thought on my part to help the Union! lol
 

Saphroneth

Banned
And the roof where the pipes would emerge? Plunging fire is not understood at this stage, so probably a standard thickness roof? I dunno much about ironclad construction so... Yeah. May work, but was more a thought on my part to help the Union! lol
My point is more that since three feet of wood could be penetrated by shells at long range, six feet may not be actually able to resist all weapons like I show.
 
My point is more that since three feet of wood could be penetrated by shells at long range, six feet may not be actually able to resist all weapons like I show.
ohhh ok With you now.

Well another advantage of green timber is that it is more springy than seasoned timber, so will bend a bit before giving. I doubt that this would be much of an advantage however, but it may soften the shell impact slightly.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
ohhh ok With you now.

Well another advantage of green timber is that it is more springy than seasoned timber, so will bend a bit before giving. I doubt that this would be much of an advantage however, but it may soften the shell impact slightly.
Haswell (1853) suggests that American experiments had a 32-lber (of 1815) penetrating 60 inches of white oak at 100 yards. Those iron layers in the Falchion are pretty necessary! (heck, by one formula the 68-lber penetrates thirteen feet of oak at the muzzle...)
 
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23-24 June 1862

Saphroneth

Banned
23 June

Pennefather's army engages a Union force west of Ann Arbor. His veteran regulars brush aside the defenders, who fall back up the rail line to avoid destruction.
Pennefather's advance is slow - he is waiting for the other shoe to drop, sure there must be more Union troops in the area than the ~10,000 he has just engaged.

The Vanderbilt slips into the Western Approaches. In the tradition of John Paul Jones, her captain aims to raid the British coast and cause terror and disruption - though this is made more problematic by a number of factors that did not avail in the Revolutionary War, not least of which being the proliferation of guard ships and blockships on the British coast. An old copy of the Times informs Vanderbilt that Pembroke/Milford Haven, for example, is defended by multiple batteries and the 60-gun screw blockship HMS Blenheim.
As attempting to sail up the Bristol Channel to raid would leave the Vanderbilt vulnerable to being cut off from Milford Haven, she instead shapes her course for Fishguard. (The Vanderbilt would have had much more choice were she willing to attack batteries, but as a ship built for speed rather than firepower or durability her captain is unwilling to take her in close.)

Lee continues moving his troops across the river, setting up in a classic pattern with two main wings. His left wing will provide the initial offensive, pushing up to Hagerstown and then towards Greencastle, while his right wing marches parallel to aim for Waynesboro.
In addition, a division under Jubal Early begins a flank march to come at Chambersburg from the west - a long journey, and one which could be easily stopped with a comparatively small force in their way.

McClellan wonders about the flanking movement, and commits a division of his own to guard the passes to the west of Chambersburg. This reduces his forces somewhat, but he is still willing to make a battle of it - provided he can get enough reinforcements. As such, as his main force marches south to establish defensive positions (along the highest terrain he can find in this relatively flat valley), he telegraphs for as many troops as possible to concentrate on him.



24 June

Eads has now finished four ironclads. The construction of the Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusets and Connecticut has been a spectacular feat of engineering, made possible by Eads' use of rigid standardization (and the startlingly high priority his efforts have had, as well as a labour force in excess of 10,000 doing every possible task in parallel - these ships have been expensive) and the four are ready to fight - if a little green.


Pennsylvania has the largest guns, with her battery consisting of a pair of 15" Rodman guns and six 8" Dahlgrens (four guns each side). Her sisters the New York and Massachusets rely on 8" Parrott rifles for their main punch, each carrying six in addition to their Dahlgrens (the reduced weight of the 8" Parrott compared to the very heavy 15" Rodman allows for them to have chase guns, through ports which are simply blocked on the Pennsylvania) and the Connecticut is equipped with sleeved 11" Dahlgrens (though, like the Pennsylvania, can only manage a broadside).

With their inclined armour consisting of two 3" layers of hammered wrought iron, Eads is justly proud - even if the actual quality of the forging is questionable.

Their official completion results in a resurgence of the argument about their role - whether they should be used to open the Chesapeake, open the Potomac or destroy Gosport.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
For the record, my assumption on the United States ironclads (apart from how they've basically consumed a lot of the stuff which was intended for the 20-ironclad navy, hence why they were produced so quickly) is that their armour is a good compromise but that that still means it's a compromise. Inclined at a steep 40 degrees angle to increase resistance, if their iron was as high quality as the typical British ironclad they'd have protection roughly equivalent to Warrior.
...however, their iron is the kind of iron Monitor had, and is quite silicaceous. That doesn't cripple them by any means, they're still very good ships (it's all that experimentation that's been going on as Dahlgren blew up about a dozen of his guns), but it does mean that they're vulnerable in a long engagement as the 3" plates' forging is poor and they could come apart under heavy fire.
 
Well... Welll

Is Pennefather plagued by bad intelligence (scouts tewling there IS another army around) or does he have good intelligence (no troops detected) and does not believe it?
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Well... Welll

Is Pennefather plagued by bad intelligence (scouts tewling there IS another army around) or does he have good intelligence (no troops detected) and does not believe it?
His scouts haven't detected any formed troops nearby, but he's not trusting it - they have a large area to cover (about thirty miles in all directions!) and the price of being overconfident would be extremely steep.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
A few things which are going to be affected, but I'm not sure how:

1) The control of the Confederate version of "Arizona" is still in the balance - no California column has taken place as they're preoccupied defending California!
2) The Dakota War is going to be ATL, may not occur or may involve British forces trying to reach out to the Dakota. Either way, it's hardly going to be easier for the Federals to keep a lid on things! (The Minnesota militia is even less well armed than OTL and they are in much more severe financial straits.)


Apart from that, I have a naval battle looming.
The British blockaders present started as Agamemnon(liner), Mersey, Immortalite and gunboats Brazen, Beaver, Snapper, but with extra ships available they also have the Resistance and three more gunboats, as well as the largely repaired Medea. The Mersey has rotated out, however, and been replaced by the Octavia.
The Confederate Navy has a few small gunboats, the Old Dominion (ironclad, OTL Richmond) and the Charleston (liner).
And the Union has their four United States ironclads and a few gunboats.

Here's the OOB. Note that I list Whiting rather than Beaver, this is because I've since seen reference Beaver was unsound wood and would not have been used - I originally included her as she was one of the (supposedly) most ready gunboats for service.



OOB

Union

Pennsylvania (screw ironclad, 2 3" hammered layers, 2 15" SB and 6 8" SB, 7 knots)
Massachusetts (screw ironclad, 2 3" hammered layers, 6 8" PR and 6 8" SB, 7 knots)
New York (screw ironclad, 2 3" hammered layers, 6 8" PR and 6 8" SB, 7 knots)
Connecticut (screw ironclad, 2 3" hammered layers, 8 9" sleeved rifles, 7 knots)
Pinola (screw gunboat, 1 11" SB and 2 24-lber SB and 2 20-lber rifle, 10 knots)
(And a few other gunboats which I'll use Unadilla class stats to represent - like the Pinola above.)


British

Resistance (screw ironclad, 4.5" rolled, 2 32-lber SB and 6 110-lber rifle and 10 68-lber SB, 11 knots)
Agamemnon (screw liner, 34 8" SB and 56 32-lber SB and 1 68-lber SB, 11 knots)
Octavia (screw frigate, 10 8" SB and 40 32-lber SB, 10.5 knots)
Immortalite (screw frigate, 4 110-lber rifle and 6 40-lber rifle and 1 68-lber smoothbore and 16 8" SB and 14 32-lber SB, 12 knots)
Medea (paddle frigate, 1 10" SB and 1 110-lber rifle and 4 32-lber SB, 10.5 knots)
Brazen (screw GB, 1 68-lber SB 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)
Whiting (screw GB, 1 68-lber SB 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)
Snapper (screw GB, 1 68-lber SB 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)
Mistletoe (screw GB, 1 110-lber rifle 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)
Clinker (screw GB, 1 110-lber rifle 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)
Camel (screw GB, 1 68-lber SB 1 32-lber SB, 7.5 knots)



Confederate

Old Dominion (screw ironclad, 2 2" rolled layers, 1 7" rifle and 2 6.4" rifles and two 10" guns, 5.5 knots)
Charleston (screw liner, six 7" rifles and 14 30-lber rifles and 48 30-lber SB, 12 knots)
Yorktown (paddle gunboat, 1 10" SB, 1 64-lber SB, 6 8" SB, 2 32-lber rifles, 12 knots)
Jamestown (paddle gunboat, 2 8" SB, 12 knots)
Beaufort (screw gunboat, 1 32-lber rifle, 9 knots)
Teaser (screw gunboat, 1 32-lber rifle, 10 knots)
 
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Well, numbers-wise it's damning. Then again, I imagine the Union has the advantage of being able to concentrate it's forces.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Well, numbers-wise it's damning. Then again, I imagine the Union has the advantage of being able to concentrate it's forces.
Remember, the Union has four ironclads present as against one British and one Confederate. They're tough buggers, too - Resistance has them outclassed because she's essentially a full ocean-going frigate and weighs as much as all four of them put together, but Resistance alone can't win the day.
There's also political complications.
 

Ryan

Donor
I can't help but think that the US losing all of its shiny new ironclads in a single battle is one of the big events that leads to them seeking peace.
 
The funny part is that a quick loss would probably be for the benefit of the Union. British war aims seem to be just making the Union to publically state "Sorry! We were naughty and we promise to not do it again!", which is kind of embarrassing but not really crippling for their war effort against the Confederation. Continuing blockade and being stopped from blockading the Confederacy, on the other hand, kind of IS. Especially since the Confederation has probably stopped shooting themselves to the foot with their "cotton diplomacy" and are actually selling the stuff to buy weapons.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
The funny part is that a quick loss would probably be for the benefit of the Union. British war aims seem to be just making the Union to publically state "Sorry! We were naughty and we promise to not do it again!", which is kind of embarrassing but not really crippling for their war effort against the Confederation. Continuing blockade and being stopped from blockading the Confederacy, on the other hand, kind of IS. Especially since the Confederation has probably stopped shooting themselves to the foot with their "cotton diplomacy" and are actually selling the stuff to buy weapons.

Gods, yes. Part of the reason I'm exploring this is basically to clarify why Lincoln backed down OTL - which is to say, that the Union's war effort would be completely buggered up by the British intervening (and within a very short time it's all but impossible to win a result like the OTL Civil War - the Union's advantages are essentially all inverted!), while the Confederacy would get a very significant shot in the arm.

Of course, the world that's resulted is interesting enough that I think I'm going to continue, albeit in outline form, past the Trent War itself.
 
Remember, the Union has four ironclads present as against one British and one Confederate. They're tough buggers, too - Resistance has them outclassed because she's essentially a full ocean-going frigate and weighs as much as all four of them put together, but Resistance alone can't win the day.
There's also political complications.
Resistance is futile? :p
 
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