If there were asylums...

This TL is based upon a saying of mine: "If there were asylums in Mecca of the 7th century, there wouldn't be Islam."
POD: 611 C.E.: Huyayy ibn Akhtab, while walking about in Mecca, notices a madman rampaging, and decides to protect the citizens of Mecca from people like him.
TL, Part 1: 612 C.E.: After collecting the funds necessary, Huyayy ibn Akhtab begins the construction of the Mecca Asylum, the first of it's kind in the world.
613 C.E.: Construction of the Mecca Asylum completed. Muhammad begins his preaching in Mecca, and is subsequently imprisoned in the Mecca Asylum, being one of it's first inmates.
632: Muhammad dies in Mecca, after being released on condition he never leaves his house.
634: Umar ibn al-Khattāb leads anhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar expedition against Axum, using a pretext that the Axumites plotted to forcibly convert the Arabs to Christianity, but with no reinforcements and that the Byzantines supported Axum, the Arabs are defeated.
That's all of my original writing for today, please reply with your ideas!
 
I somehow don't think you will last here very long...

For a start Mohammed's ideas are certainly no weirder than the mishmash of goddesses that Mecca and Medina et al already had

And I always thought he was well in the tradition of self-proclaimed prophets in the region

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
This TL is based upon a saying of mine: "If there were asylums in Mecca of the 7th century, there wouldn't be Islam."
POD: 611 C.E.: Huyayy ibn Akhtab, while walking about in Mecca, notices a madman rampaging, and decides to protect the citizens of Mecca from people like him.
TL, Part 1: 612 C.E.: After collecting the funds necessary, Huyayy ibn Akhtab begins the construction of the Mecca Asylum, the first of it's kind in the world.
613 C.E.: Construction of the Mecca Asylum completed. Muhammad begins his preaching in Mecca, and is subsequently imprisoned in the Mecca Asylum, being one of it's first inmates.
632: Muhammad dies in Mecca, after being released on condition he never leaves his house.
634: Umar ibn al-Khattāb leads anhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar expedition against Axum, using a pretext that the Axumites plotted to forcibly convert the Arabs to Christianity, but with no reinforcements and that the Byzantines supported Axum, the Arabs are defeated.
That's all of my original writing for today, please reply with your ideas!
Uh I hate to break it to you but the idea of an asylum is just ludicrous in 613 C.E. There was no field of psychology then and wouldn't be for over 1200 years.
 
Ironically, it was Islam that motivated the construction of early hospitals (bimaristans), which generally included wings for the mad.
 

Philip

Donor
An insane asylum is entirely possible in (most) any era. A psychiatric hospital (which the OP did NOT propose) would have to wait until Freud.

Absolutely agree, especially if we expand the definition of 'asylum' to include 'place to store these people possessed by evil spirits.' That being said, I really can't find anything redeeming in the OP.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
This TL is based upon a saying of mine: "If there were asylums in Mecca of the 7th century, there wouldn't be Islam."

I'll second the recommendations made: Be careful. Although by any modern standards, Mohammed was insane, but so was Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, etc.

Just be careful. Islamophobia is not allowed.
 

Hashasheen

Banned
This TL is based upon a saying of mine: "If there were asylums in Mecca of the 7th century, there wouldn't be Islam."
POD: 611 C.E.: Huyayy ibn Akhtab, while walking about in Mecca, notices a madman rampaging, and decides to protect the citizens of Mecca from people like him.
TL, Part 1: 612 C.E.: After collecting the funds necessary, Huyayy ibn Akhtab begins the construction of the Mecca Asylum, the first of it's kind in the world.
613 C.E.: Construction of the Mecca Asylum completed. Muhammad begins his preaching in Mecca, and is subsequently imprisoned in the Mecca Asylum, being one of it's first inmates.
632: Muhammad dies in Mecca, after being released on condition he never leaves his house.
634: Umar ibn al-Khattāb leads anhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar expedition against Axum, using a pretext that the Axumites plotted to forcibly convert the Arabs to Christianity, but with no reinforcements and that the Byzantines supported Axum, the Arabs are defeated.
That's all of my original writing for today, please reply with your ideas!
You have no idea how hard I'm trying not to locate where you are and kill you.
 
Although by any modern standards, Mohammed was insane, but so was Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, etc.

And they were "insane" because they defied their era's people's norms. By your standard, one is insane if one decides to reform the norms and values existing during one's lifetime, certainly different from brain-malfunction-and-psychotic-disorder kind of insane, even though that arguably both kinds can overlap with each other.

So....
1) Does by modern era attitudes towards the first kind of insane have any difference essentially with attitudes towards it during early 600s ?
Big NO, I guess.

2) Will this Meccan "asylum" be to insane and nasty for modern standard ?
Most likely.

3) Does this thread's particular idea have the potential to result in a TL interestingly themed on a "inquisitious" kind of Arab Paganism ? :eek:
Who can deny this !? :cool:

4) Does our dear writer actually intent for THAT instead of... umm...... *nt*-*uh***a*-ism ? THAT'S THE TOUGHEST QUESTION !!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
Although by any modern standards, Mohammed was insane, but so was Moses, Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, etc.
Actually, you are wrong about that. Aside from the fact that insanity is not a recognized disorder anymore, none of these men possessed more than one or two symptoms of insanity. Your statement is extremely insulting to all religions, so I'd watch it.
 
And they were "insane" because they defied their era's people's norms. By your standard, one is insane if one decides to reform the norms and values existing during one's lifetime, certainly different from brain-malfunction-and-psychotic-disorder kind of insane, even though that arguably both kinds can overlap with each other.

So....
1) Does by modern era attitudes towards the first kind of insane have any difference essentially with attitudes towards it during early 600s ?
Big NO, I guess.

2) Will this Meccan "asylum" be to insane and nasty for modern standard ?
Most likely.

3) Does this thread's particular idea have the potential to result in a TL interestingly themed on a "inquisitious" kind of Arab Paganism ? :eek:
Who can deny this !? :cool:

4) Does our dear writer actually intent for THAT instead of... umm...... *nt*-*uh***a*-ism ? THAT'S THE TOUGHEST QUESTION !!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

You bring up a good point, I think that the OP should be judged more charitably than other posters may think. First according to wiki Huyayy ibn Akhtab was a jewish tribe leader, so this new form of "asylum" won't be pagan.

This what if seems possible for the development of a very centralized state based on Mecca, with an expansionistic outlook (it already attempted an intervention in Axum. This Mecca on one hand will be a pluralistic polytheism accepting Judaism and pagan gods, but will also seek the irradiation of non-tribal gods.

I think this Mecca has a chance to expand somewhat like OTL Arabs did during the Caliphate. Not anywhere near as successfully as historical Muslim Arabs did, but they would have the advantage of a centralized authority and pure doctrine of pluralistic polytheism.

An interesting twist would be that as the Arab Empire expands it might eventually collapse like the when Muhammadanism threatens it like the OTL Romans and the Christians.

Good POD, if taken in the right way.
 
For a start Mohammed's ideas are certainly no weirder than the mishmash of goddesses that Mecca and Medina et al already had
Mohammad [peace be on Him] started out a Christian, trying to reform the Church, It was only after he was driven out of Mecca by the Bishop, And was adopted by the Desert tribesmen who worshiped Allah, that he developed [received the Voice of Allah] Islam.

Werther He can be locked up, depends on whether you believe in his Divine Inspiration.
 
Mohammad [peace be on Him] started out a Christian, trying to reform the Church, It was only after he was driven out of Mecca by the Bishop, And was adopted by the Desert tribesmen who worshiped Allah, that he developed [received the Voice of Allah] Islam.

Werther He can be locked up, depends on whether you believe in his Divine Inspiration.

What are you talking about?
 
Mohammad [peace be on Him] started out a Christian, trying to reform the Church, It was only after he was driven out of Mecca by the Bishop, And was adopted by the Desert tribesmen who worshiped Allah, that he developed [received the Voice of Allah] Islam.

Werther He can be locked up, depends on whether you believe in his Divine Inspiration.

No he was not. Run no more with erroneous information in your mind. Set it aside now and walk away.
 

Nikephoros

Banned
And they were "insane" because they defied their era's people's norms. By your standard, one is insane if one decides to reform the norms and values existing during one's lifetime, certainly different from brain-malfunction-and-psychotic-disorder kind of insane, even though that arguably both kinds can overlap with each other.

So....
1) Does by modern era attitudes towards the first kind of insane have any difference essentially with attitudes towards it during early 600s ?
Big NO, I guess.

2) Will this Meccan "asylum" be to insane and nasty for modern standard ?
Most likely.

3) Does this thread's particular idea have the potential to result in a TL interestingly themed on a "inquisitious" kind of Arab Paganism ? :eek:
Who can deny this !? :cool:

4) Does our dear writer actually intent for THAT instead of... umm...... *nt*-*uh***a*-ism ? THAT'S THE TOUGHEST QUESTION !!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Actually, you are wrong about that. Aside from the fact that insanity is not a recognized disorder anymore, none of these men possessed more than one or two symptoms of insanity. Your statement is extremely insulting to all religions, so I'd watch it.

I didn't actually assume that there was one disorder called insanity, but I would say that all religious leaders are what most people today would call insane if they didn't follow their religions teachings.

If I was to come to you and tell you that God spoke to me and told me to found a religion (or better yet the son of God, like Jesus),, you would think that I am crazy. Now, from a viewpoint of someone with faith in what I said, I am actually inspired by God.

My point wasn't to bash religion. Because let's face it, if God did speak to me, those who he didn't speak to would either: A: Believe me. or B: Write me off as crazy, or insane. In our times where science has explanations for many of the things we see around us (although not really the more philosophical things, like the reason of existence, life after death, etc.) B is a lot more likely to happen. Back then though, faith vastly overcame religion. Science didn't have the answers to why the Sun rose everyday, how our body works (OK, anatomy existed, but not nearly the extent of today.), etc. back in those days.

Perhaps, Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, etc. did talk to these people, and if you are religious you accept that. Religion is a great tool for comforting your self with the hardships of this world, although I don't believe. My only intention was to make him know that by the views that it seemed that he put out, and I wanted to show him that all religious founders meet the same standard. I apologize if I offended anyone.
 
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