If the USSR falls can the Western Allies win??

amphibulous

Banned
Your logic is flawed anyway - "total effort" cannot be carried over from year to year.

That's largely very, very wrong. Shells you don't fire can be stockpiled. Tanks that aren't destroyed don't need replacing. And combat troops not killed, injured or mentally exhausted won't need replacing either.

Even better, if you're not straining to meet immediate combat needs you can build new production lines, tweak and replace key weapon designs.
 

amphibulous

Banned
Your numbers are seriously mistaken.

You are only counting combat effort by divisions on the ground, and ignoring all combat effort by air forces, by air defense forces, and by naval forces.

(Wehrmacht means "armed forces", and includes air force and navy, as well as army (Heer). Though not the SS...)

For instance, it has been stated that in 1943-1945, one third of all German
ammunition production was fired up. Guess what it was fired at?

I would say "aircraft." Which watching teevee US TV might have made you think means "Our boys and maybe them limeys a little."

In reality however, the Russians did have an airforce! You might not have heard of it, but of the top three most produced aircraft designs in history TWO were Ruskie WW2 ground attack aircraft, with 36,000 units each - only matched by the Cessna 172. So assuming that AA wasn't heavily in demand on the Eastern front is just pure Fail.
 
I would say "aircraft." Which watching teevee US TV might have made you think means "Our boys and maybe them limeys a little."

In reality however, the Russians did have an airforce! You might not have heard of it, but of the top three most produced aircraft designs in history TWO were Ruskie WW2 ground attack aircraft, with 36,000 units each - only matched by the Cessna 172. So assuming that AA wasn't heavily in demand on the Eastern front is just pure Fail.

I think Canada had a bigger navy than the Soviets by the end of the war though. (Non-relevant tidbits! Yay!)
 
So assuming that AA wasn't heavily in demand on the Eastern front is just pure Fail.
However, the US produced more than twice as many total aircraft as the USSR (and many of them were heavy bombers), while the Commonwealth produced more aircraft than the USSR as well (though many of those were training aircraft).
 
I do wonder, what with Allied forces sitting in Persia, would they really let the Nazis get to Baku without throwing a full intervention?
 
Originally posted by amphibulous
In reality however, the Russians did have an airforce! You might not have heard of it, but of the top three most produced aircraft designs in history TWO were Ruskie WW2 ground attack aircraft, with 36,000 units each - only matched by the Cessna 172. So assuming that AA wasn't heavily in demand on the Eastern front is just pure Fail.

The famous Sturmovik. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2
 
Originally posted by Beedok
I think Canada had a bigger navy than the Soviets by the end of the war though.

Could be, more or less the soviets lost the half of their navy during World War II, but before the German invasion it was at least on paper an interesting navy with some battleships (the most part refits of ships inherited of the Imperial Russian Navy), the Kirov class cruisers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirov_class_cruiser, and a good amount of destroyers and submarines
For example the Baltic Fleet at the 22 june 1941 http://niehorster.orbat.com/012_ussr/41_oob/navy/baltic-fleet/bf_.html
The Northern Fleet at the time of the Winter War against Finland http://niehorster.orbat.com/012_ussr/39_oob/northern-fleet.html
 
I read somewhere that the Allies stopped trying to assassinate him by '43 because he was so drugged up and crazy that he was doing more damage by simply being in power.
I don't know about active plots to assassinate him, but the British still kept tabs on Hitler's habits, diet and schedule with the obvious goal of working out a way to kill him. They stopped doing this in April 1945, just a few weeks before he killed himself.
 
I do wonder, what with Allied forces sitting in Persia, would they really let the Nazis get to Baku without throwing a full intervention?

They'd just bomb the refinery to keep it from falling into Nazi hands.

Requires no deployment of troops into the Caucasian meatgrinder and denies the only real asset the Nazis would have in the region.
 
If the USSR falls in 1941 or 42 then yes the Western Allies could win. But, the problem is that the U.S. and UK are democracies not dictatorships. And, if by November 1944 FDR who is focused on Germany not the country the American public by in large wanted him to be focused on "Japan" who attacked us can't go back to the U.S. public and show real progress in the war in Europe he is out.

In which case the GOP takes over the WH certainly with the promise to focus on Japan. With FDR gone and the U.S. on a Japan centric strategy Churchill is going to be dumped as PM and by early 1945 I suspect the war in Europe ends with the U.S. and UK getting to reoccupy France and the Low countries and that is it.

Within 2 decades either WW3 starts or the German state implodes from bad economic decisions.
 
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