If the USS Langley had not been sunk?

Draconis

The USS Langley was sunk off the South Coast of Java February 1942 by IJN air attack. She had been tasked to deliver a load of P-40s to the USAAF in Java.

This is a picture of what the Langley looked like after her conversion to a seaplane tender in 1937. The biggest change being the partial removal of what was a full length flight deck.

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If the Langley had not been sunk what would the USN had used her for? Would they have continued using her as an airplane transport? Or would they have more need for a seaplane tender at that difficult time and place? I think she would have made a decent airplane transport but I'm unsure about her range.
 
ScrewySqrl

ScrewySqrl

With her slow speed (15.5 knots) she would probly be relegated to convoy escort and fleet replenishment duty. Her flight deck might be re-extended, but she'd be decomissioned after the war.

She might even be relegated to flight deck training, similar to the two paddle-wheel carriers on the Great Lakes.
 
Driftless

Driftless

Donor
If she survives past February 1942, I'd think the USN would be happy to have every flattop they could get. For the balance of 1942, with it's shortened flight deck, I'd guess it remains a plane ferry. Once some more CVE's or CVL's start coming on in greater numbers, then the role probably changes - maybe back to it's seaplane tender gig?
 

Zheng He

Dave Howery said:
would the load of P-40s delivered to Java make much difference there? I'm guessing 'too little, too late'...
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They won't make a difference but they will take their measure of the enemy. In February 1942, the USAAF's 17th Provisional Squadron (P-40s) accounted for 48 enemy aircraft for the loss of only eight pilots. All of their fighters were either shot down or written off by the end of the month but they did well considering the conditions they were operating in.
 

Draconis

Driftless said:
If she survives past February 1942, I'd think the USN would be happy to have every flattop they could get. For the balance of 1942, with it's shortened flight deck, I'd guess it remains a plane ferry. Once some more CVE's or CVL's start coming on in greater numbers, then the role probably changes - maybe back to it's seaplane tender gig?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a reasonable assessment. Aircraft ferry and/or oversize cargo transport until 1944 or so than seaplane tender for the remainder of the war. And I doubt the USN would go to the trouble of restoring the full length flight deck for an aircraft ferry in 42/43. The facilities capable of doing that kind of work would be busy working on more imperative jobs.
 

georgy176

Wondering if the US would consider using her as a decoy in an operation to ambush a couple of Japanese carriers. Tack on a simple extension at the front so it looks like she is a fully operational carrier again then run her up and down the coasts of the Solomons and New Guinea. When the Japanese come out looking in that direction. hit them from a totally different direction with the real carrier group. Of course if the ambush does not happen quickly enough then Langley could end up being sunk after all.
 

gallen95

Remember that the Langley did not have a proper hanger deck. When aircraft were struck below they had to be disassembled. So she had to use a deck park for her aircraft.
 
marathag

marathag

Banned
gallen95 said:
Remember that the Langley did not have a proper hanger deck. When aircraft were struck below they had to be disassembled. So she had to use a deck park for her aircraft.
Click to expand...
Original Hangar shot
020122.jpg

And Elevator in use
020110.jpg

Looks like elevator was intact, though after conversion

USSLangley_6.jpg

USSLangley_3.jpg
 

corditeman

Strangely enough...

...In my first HMS Heligoland book on Page 298 and after, USS Langley is sunk by a Soviet team on 6th April 1923 trying to cause trouble between Japan and the USA. A bomb planted when Langley visits the harbour of Vladivostok, on a timed delay fuse. Rescue of crew by RN carrier HMS Olympic and IJN carrier Hosho. Effect is to speed up USN acquisition of more carriers and trigger a later battle in the Black Sea for HMS Furious that left her mission-killed but grounded and later rebuilt as the Irish Republic's first carrier LE Eithne.

Might be a useful back story for you, Draconis.
 

Draconis

I thought I should post my USS Langley comments here so as not to hijack the Yorktown thread any further.
 

Draconis

One advantage to abandoning trying to use the USS Langley as an aircraft carrier but instead convert her into an aircraft transport ship is it simplifies the rebuild and the design can be optimized for airplane stowage only. Rebuilding the full length of the flight deck (now top stowage deck) provides more room to carry planes. And without flight operations no space for the elevator is needed.

Same with the main deck (now mid stowage deck) space. Having no elevator frees up more deck space for airplane stowage. The former coal holds (now the low stowage deck) below the mid stowage deck can also be used for stowing disassembled or folded wing planes.

Loading would be done with a crane fitted to the starboard side of the top stowage deck just above where the mid stowage deck begins. Airplanes would be hoisted from the dock onto the top stowage deck or onto a folding down platform fitted to the starboard side of the mid stowage deck. The platform would fold down like a ramp for loading and unloading and be raised up and secured afterward. WW2 carrier planes, even the heaviest, the TBF Avenger only weighed empty 5 tons and the other planes much less so the engineering required for the hoisting crane and the loading ramp is not excessive.

The floor of the mid stowage deck would need to have a large enough hatch fitted so planes could be lowered, by one of the Langley's original jib cranes, below to the low stowage deck. After the low stowage deck is filled the hatch cover is replaced so airplanes can be stowed on it thereby using all available space. I wonder how many airplanes could be crammed aboard the redesigned Langley?
 

Draconis

If the readers think the redesigned USS Langley was unusual wait to you all see what I would've done
with the MN Bearn to optimize her for airplane transport duties in WW2.
 

Carl Schwamberger

marathag said:
Original Hangar shot

And Elevator in use
020110.jpg

Looks like elevator was intact, though after conversion
Click to expand...

Interesting pics. This would have been in the era when Adm 'Bull' Reeves took command of the air detachment on the Langley. He found the air wing was still experimenting with single aircraft operations. Reeves observed for a week then told the ships officers they would be starting "squadron" operations imeadiatly. They were aghast, then Reeves told them they would be conducting "group" operations very soon. When the shouting subsided Reeves pointed out that the Lexington and Saratoga would be launched and worked up in a year or two. He expected to have the basics of carrier air group or wing operations worked out by the time the two new carriers were ready to receive their air wings. Photos taken aboard the Langley show Reeves still sported a beard in the 1920s clean shaven Navy.

Earlier in his career Reeves served as ordnance officer in the staff of the Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet. He followed this with assignment to the Board of Inspection and Survey. In those slots he had helped ramrod bring the Navies cannon ammunition to modern 20th Century standards. His at sea commands included the Collier Jupiter, cruiser St Louis, battleship Oregon BB3, battleship Maine BB10, and battleship North Dakota BB29. All that made him a member emeritus of the Navys gun club. In 1924 he achieved qualification as a Navy aviator (observer) and took the squadron command. He went on to become commander of the US Navys 'Battle Force', then CiC US Fleet. In those roles in the 1930s he continued the Navy practice of making the carriers key components in the tactical and operational planning, and in the annual Fleet Problems that tested USN theory. During the mobilization for WWII he was recalled to active duty and served in the Sec Navy Office until 1946.
 
marathag

marathag

Banned
Carl Schwamberger said:
Interesting pics. This would have been in the era when Adm 'Bull' Reeves took command of the air detachment on the Langley. He found the air wing was still experimenting with single aircraft operations. Reeves observed for a week then told the ships officers they would be starting "squadron" operations imeadiatly. They were aghast, then Reeves told them they would be conducting "group" operations very soon. When the shouting subsided Reeves pointed out that the Lexington and Saratoga would be launched and worked up in a year or two. He expected to have the basics of carrier air group or wing operations worked out by the time the two new carriers were ready to receive their air wings. Photos taken aboard the Langley show Reeves still sported a beard in the 1920s clean shaven Navy.
Click to expand...

For the same size, Langley operated twice the aircraft what HMS Argus could, and she wasn't handicapped with that funky elevator setup. This is where it was found that Deck Parks wasn't as bad as thought
 
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