If the US had no straight line borders, what would it look like?

[Deleted member 93645]

What if the US only had natural borders, or hypothetically, had hundreds of years of medieval/Renaissance style warfare like in Europe, that created twists and turns in its borders?

I'm mainly referring to the international borders with Canada and Mexico, but state borders would also be interesting to see.

Assume that the 48 contiguous states still have at least 70-80% of their land. (Hawaii obviously has no land borders already, while Alaska's non-arbitrary border would probably be the watershed of the Yukon.)

 

[Umbric Man]

The American-Canadian border from Maine to Minnesota's Lake of the Woods would be OTL. The Mississippi Bay watershed would then be it for the middle part of, a la 1803-1818 (pre-Anglo-American Convention). Then you have your choice of either winning or losing 54'40'' Or Fight and gain southern British Columbia or give up Washington state.

Mexico would simply be the border from 1848-1853 - the Gila and Rio Grande Rivers, no Gadsden Purchase ever happening.

 

[DominusNovus]

I'm trying to think of any states that totally lack such borders (besides Hawaii). There aren't any, so everything would be different.

 

[telynk]

The American-Canadian border from Maine to Minnesota's Lake of the Woods would be OTL.

There are actually a couple of places between the Atlantic and Lake Ontario where the US-Canada border is a straight line. For example, there is a straight North-South line from the headwaters of the St. Croix River till the border hits the St. John river between Maine and New Brunswick. There is also a straight-line border between Maine and Quebec from Pohenegamook to Lac-Frontiere, and a straight-line border between New York State and Quebec between Lake Champlain and the St. Lawrence. These would all have to somehow change.

 

[Tom Colton]

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

However the ASB that created them wanted.

Seriously, people. The ORIGINAL Charters of the original colonies usually involved straight lines. So any PoD means either changing ALL of those (ha, ha), or is before most of those charters are granted, in which case butterflies guarantee that nothing even closely resembling OTL's USA exists.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Nope. There are still straight lines on the Canadian and Mexican borders.

 

[telynk]

However the ASB that created them wanted.

Seriously, people. The ORIGINAL Charters of the original colonies usually involved straight lines. So any PoD means either changing ALL of those (ha, ha), or is before most of those charters are granted, in which case butterflies guarantee that nothing even closely resembling OTL's USA exists.

When you mentioned changing 'all' of the borders, I had realization. During the French Revolution, I believe there was a plan to make all of the borders of the various départments into straight lines because it would be more 'rational' that way:

So, what if the USA undergoes a revolution which does the opposite and wants to redraw borders WITHOUT using straight lines. I have no idea what kind of revolution would want that, but it would probably be ASB. Just thought it would be an interesting idea.

 

[RMcD94]

When you mentioned changing 'all' of the borders, I had realization. During the French Revolution, I believe there was a plan to make all of the borders of the various départments into straight lines because it would be more 'rational' that way:

So, what if the USA undergoes a revolution which does the opposite and wants to redraw borders WITHOUT using straight lines. I have no idea what kind of revolution would want that, but it would probably be ASB. Just thought it would be an interesting idea.

French Revolution explodes through Europe, with most of the newspapers around the world decrying in particular the fondness for straight lines used throughout the new revolutionary states. A counter-revolution strikes up, in particular whispers starts going around that the founding fathers were/are revolutionists? To avoid such rumours they change the borders.

 

[Puzzle]

I'm trying to think of any states that totally lack such borders (besides Hawaii). There aren't any, so everything would be different.

I was about to proudly prove you wrong with West Virginia, then I realized it still had the Pennsylvania border section.

 

[WhoMadeWho]

New Jersey almost has no straight line borders. Only the northern border with New York follows a straight line. The rest follows coast line and rivers.

 

[Aquagel8last320]

New Jersey almost has no straight line borders. Only the northern border with New York follows a straight line. The rest follows coast line and rivers.

TBH we should have everything in between the hudson and deleware

 

[WhoMadeWho]

TBH we should have everything in between the hudson and deleware

That's Greater New Jersey.

 

[Aquagel8last320]

manifest destiny.

 

[NHBL]

Natural borders often have some straight lines, as mentioned earlier, but not many, usually just to accommodate a gap between two natural borders--I'd think that the Maine/Canada border should qualify.

 

[Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)]

When you mentioned changing 'all' of the borders, I had realization. During the French Revolution, I believe there was a plan to make all of the borders of the various départments into straight lines because it would be more 'rational' that way: So, what if the USA undergoes a revolution which does the opposite and wants to redraw borders WITHOUT using straight lines. I have no idea what kind of revolution would want that, but it would probably be ASB. Just thought it would be an interesting idea.

Jesus, this is abhorrent. Chessboard-map France.

 

[Petros >Peter Fergus<]

However the ASB that created them wanted.

Seriously, people. The ORIGINAL Charters of the original colonies usually involved straight lines. So any PoD means either changing ALL of those (ha, ha), or is before most of those charters are granted, in which case butterflies guarantee that nothing even closely resembling OTL's USA exists.

Interesting. Maybe there could be a scenario where the East has straight lines, and the West does not. If each colony or state went it's own way, they might be relatively peaceful when sticking to the borders as of the Revolution; but they could fight over borders out West, and so they'd end up following defensive lines. Each one would be weaker against the natives and Mexico, so they'd get natural borders too.