If the Third Reich took over Britain, who would have led the colloborationist Gov?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by IntellectuallyHonestRhino, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. IntellectuallyHonestRhino Well-Known Member

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    This is not a debate on whether The Nazis could have. This is not a thread about the infamous sea mammal.


    In France, Petain was chosen to lead the collaborationist Vichy France government. In Serbia, it was Milan Nedic. Who would have been chosen as the British collaborator and why?

    Also, what happens to the British political parties?


    Is Churchill executed?

    Who would serve as the "British de Gaulle"? Or would the colonies submit once London is taken over? What about Free France now that Britain has been taken over?

    What would happen to Scotland? To Wales? To Ireland? (both the North and the Republic)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  2. New Cleo Genesis Ṣrtô nag lavēskiy drûotnec?

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    David Lloyd George, perhaps?
     
  3. IntellectuallyHonestRhino Well-Known Member

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    Why is that? I know about how during the 30's he praised Hitler.

    How would that impact British democracy? Would the Liberal party become the collaborationist party?
     
  4. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    What about Oswald Mosley?
    I also immagine that the Nazis will give the trone back to king Edward, considering his fascist tendencies
     
  5. New Cleo Genesis Ṣrtô nag lavēskiy drûotnec?

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    I think you'd need someone with a lot of credibility among the general populace, and Lloyd George certainly fits that part (just like Pétain in France). The fact that he expressed pro-German viewpoints from the early-to-mid 1920's onwards is just icing on the cake.
     
  6. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    If he doesn't escape, he will be surely executed
    I immagine that the royal family will escape to Canada however rather than stay in England
    I suppose it t depends on the location of the colonies: Canada and Australia will immediately refuse to recognise the collaborationistic government, India will be trown into chaos ( especially if the invasion of Burma happens like OTL),King Farouk of Egypt will join the Axis or at least recognise Edward (in OTL he had shown admiration for Nazi Germany), the Jews in Palestine are screwed (i can think of at least three different scenarios) , Italy will seize British Somalia and Spain will do the same with Gibilrar
    It is more complicated with South Africa: i immagine that they will side with Edward as long as he let Apartheid untouched but they will also try to have friendly relationships with the USA
    Also yes, Free France is screwed
     
  7. Md139115 Bring back the Inquisition!

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    Mosley is probably the best choice.

    As for Edward, his whole abdication was carefully stage-managed to make absolutely sure that all the people understood that he left of his own accord since he wouldn’t be allowed to marry Wallis otherwise, and his brother is now the rightful king. Throwing all that out the window would entail the greatest undermining of the legitimacy of the British throne since the Glorious Revolution, and be a great deal less popular. There’s also the issue that there’s a vast sea of difference between saying: “we’re fighting the wrong people,” and “we have justly lost and now we need to do as they say,” and I’m not sure Edward would have done the latter.
     
  8. Halagaz Well-Known Member

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    Generally, Nazi Germany preferred not to install straight-up fascist governments in puppets and subordinate countries. They preferred regimes led by notable figures from the old period and only partial fascistization.

    In other words, yeah: someone like Lloyd George, rather than Mosely. Mosely only gets a cabinet post - and that's if he's lucky.

    Of course, I'm not convinced that Lloyd George would have accepted it. But who knows.
     
  9. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that his brother is the same guy who approved the war against Germany and the Nazis will do anything to discredit him
    Yes, Edward's abdication was done to discredit him but the Nazis won't care because he is the most legitimate ruler they have found and they can use him against an eventual british government in exile
     
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  10. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    You mean like Mussolini after 1943?
    Because the Nazis restored him to power anyway
     
  11. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    Petain was a war hero but he accepted anyway
    I could see Llyoyd accepting the job, thinking it will allow him to contain the damage
     
  12. Halagaz Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it's definitely possible. But I could also see him refusing on moral and patriotic grounds - or simply because he feels he's too old.
     
  13. Ozzymandias Chief whip of the world

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    There is a great story, and tv short series "SS-GB" by Len Deighton about that scenario. Britain is divided into free and occupied zone, controled by SS.
    Also, in Daily Mail there is this about screenwriters research
     
  14. Md139115 Bring back the Inquisition!

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    I meant more Edward willingly going along with it. Of course the Nazis would love to have him, but aside from threatening to harm Wallis (something easily taken care of beforehand by evacuating her), they would have precious little leverage.
     
  15. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    Knowing Edward, getting back the throne and his high standard of life will be enough to convince him
    I also immagine that he is intelligent enough to know what would happen to him if he didn't follow Berlin's istructions
     
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  16. Md139115 Bring back the Inquisition!

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    Look, I’m not saying that Edward isn’t a shallow brat with lousy taste in friends, but there is something worth noting about him. In 1936, he was popular enough among the common people that he could easily have said to Baldwin and the rest: “I’m making Wallis my Queen, end of discussion, try to stop me and you’ll have rioting or worse on your hands,” and he knew it. Instead, he gave up rather than risk the dissolution of the empire (some of the dominions were planning to overthrow him if he married Wallis) and possible civil war in the UK. I think there was some small shred of dignity and patriotism in him that is usually miscounted in these discussions.
     
  17. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    Then maybe we could use the same motivation to explain why he would accept the nazis' offer: he sees the situation and believes that he can save the british empire from further collapse
     
  18. Md139115 Bring back the Inquisition!

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    “Hi there Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and everyone else, we just lost the war and they’re now holding us hostage. Would you be so kind as to do whatever Herr Hitler says?”
     
  19. IntellectuallyHonestRhino Well-Known Member

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    The Afrikaners though would support the Germans so I think South Africa, with some regimental support from the continent could be under Collaborationist Britain's thumb. And in India, Subash Chandra Bose would be interesting there to say the least.


    In Canada how the Quebecois react would also be interesting.


    Really the WASPS of the colonies would be the least willing to cooperate. Have London fall and the others may see working with Berlin a good option.
     
  20. raffaele gaggioli Well-Known Member

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    I already made a post about this
     
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