If the Mongols had encountered western European crusader forces how would have the clashes gone?

I know they had clashes with the Russians and some other eastern european groups but if they had encountered mounted western European knights let's say Crusaders they encountered in the 13th century in the middle-east how would things have gone?
 
Are you Pandora, because you shouldn't have opened this box.

Heavy armored knights - maybe not good for the Westerners. But when the Europeans bring walking armies of castles, forests, mountain logistics and being a generally uninteresting place for the Mongols to raid, that is when things get interesting, apparently.
 
I know they had clashes with the Russians and some other eastern european groups but if they had encountered mounted western European knights let's say Crusaders they encountered in the 13th century in the middle-east how would things have gone?
This would be especially interesting if any of the Franco-Mongol alliances had ever amounted to anything.
 
The Turkic armies the Crusaders (and the Byz) faced were mounted archers much like the Mongols and the Crusaders held their own readily enough. When the mounted archers appeared the crossbow infantry would keep them at bay, nullifying their favoured tactic of raining arrows onto the massed enemy forces, they also tried to anchor one of both flanks against an obstacle so the horse archers couldn't surround them. This meant that the only way for the Turkic horse archers to have any effect was to close with the Crusader forces, at which point the knights were unstoppable in the charge and melee.

Assuming the numbers and force composition was enough and the western forces could fight how they wanted there is no reason why the Mongols should wipe out a western, Crusader-style army.
 
Did they meet crusaders in the Battle of Ain Jalur or was thay just Mamluks? I vaguely remembee there waa an unusual truce to fight the Mongols, and early cannons were involved
 
At the end of the day, it seems mostly about logistics considering the players and their location, I frankly(mongly) wouldn't be too surprised if either sides won decisive victories(talking about battles, not overall campaigns of conquest) over the other, outside cases like a small Mongol contigent destroying a Crusader Wank state(let's say all of the Levant and Egypt, basically like the Mameluk state) or a proper and big Mongol invasion destroyed by Crusaders states as divided and declining as IOTL. Basically the extreme scenarios are unlikely if not impossible, obviously.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
I think Mongols would be victorious. Mamluks successfully defeat Crusaders, so Mongols can do the same. Crusading States seems under slow decline since their heyday at First Crusade, politically and economically, they been weakening. Mongols forces meanwhile is at their height.
 
I think Mongols would be victorious. Mamluks successfully defeat Crusaders, so Mongols can do the same. Crusading States seems under slow decline since their heyday at First Crusade, politically and economically, they been weakening. Mongols forces meanwhile is at their height.
How does the conclusion follow from the fact? You basically said that Mamluks>Crusaders, but it's also true that Mamluks>Mongols considering they won decisively in Ain Jalut, but I agree that if the Crusaders are in decline they wouldn't have much luck against the Mongols, but it still leaves a lot of room for victories on the Crusader side.

About the same as the Arabs did against the Mongols: get crushed.
Ain Jalut
 

PhilippeO

Banned
How does the conclusion follow from the fact? You basically said that Mamluks>Crusaders, but it's also true that Mamluks>Mongols considering they won decisively in Ain Jalut, but I agree that if the Crusaders are in decline they wouldn't have much luck against the Mongols, but it still leaves a lot of room for victories on the Crusader side.
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Mamluks totally crushed Crusader States, while Ain Jalut is border skirmish between Mamelukes and extremely large Mongol Empire. so Mamluks is at best equal to Mongol,vwhile Crusader is very minor when compared to Mamluks.
 
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