If the july plot succeds, can they save Prussia and maybe Danzig?

The title says all, Koenigsberg was the center of the Prussian state before the unification with Brandeburg and it was one of the most important german cities, but it was annexed on Russia and the german population was expelled after WWII. Had the july 20 of 1944 plot succeded, could Stauffenberg have bargained a surrender that saved Prussia, and maybe have kept Danzig under German control, or it was all lost by that point?
 
Probably not. Absolute best case is the July 20 plotters more or less let the WAllies march unopposed through France, Benelux, and Germany and fight like hell vs the Soviets so less of Germany would be Red after the war.

Odds are everything east of the Oder-Niesse line was going to be Soviet-dominated in some form or fashion even if that aforementioned best case happens. In reality the Allies probably laugh at Stauffenberg and say "hey, thanks for killing Hitler, that was swell...now surrender unconditionally."
 
Probably not. Absolute best case is the July 20 plotters more or less let the WAllies march unopposed through France, Benelux, and Germany and fight like hell vs the Soviets so less of Germany would be Red after the war.

Odds are everything east of the Oder-Niesse line was going to be Soviet-dominated in some form or fashion even if that aforementioned best case happens. In reality the Allies probably laugh at Stauffenberg and say "hey, thanks for killing Hitler, that was swell...now surrender unconditionally."

The soviets are in the middle of Belarus and the Baltics are still german, can't him hope that the allies accept the 1937 borders back if he stops the war immediately? This can prevent the soviets from taking over Hungary, Yugoslavia and the Czech republic,
 
It depends. The policy of unconditional surrender was adopted at the Casablanca Conference in January 1943. Churchill, however, never was a friend of the Soviets (after all, he'd been involved with trying to kill Bolshevism in the cradle by supporting British intervention in the Russian Civil War). Churchill would probably be amenable to talk to a non-Nazi Germany about a conditional surrender that could include a guarantee of the 1937 borders. The question is whether he could talk the Americans into it or not. If not, then the July 1944 plotters are out of luck.
 

RousseauX

Donor
The soviets are in the middle of Belarus and the Baltics are still german, can't him hope that the allies accept the 1937 borders back if he stops the war immediately? This can prevent the soviets from taking over Hungary, Yugoslavia and the Czech republic,
Depends, the reason is because in 1945 neither the Soviets nor the Allies trusted Germany, Germany after all, was viewed as having started WWII 20 years after WWI ended. The fear was that it was going to start WWIII in 1965. In the original UN planning there were plans to build a series of bases around the world ready to be occupied by allied forces in case Germany/japan rises again and fights another war in another 20 years. In 1944-45 both allies/soviets were thinking in terms of both "Germany was a threat" and not JUST "the Nazis are evil".

So it had to look like occupation of Germany + 1937 borders and would even Stauffenburg accept Communist Germany even with 1937 borders I'm not sure.
 

RousseauX

Donor
It depends. The policy of unconditional surrender was adopted at the Casablanca Conference in January 1943. Churchill, however, never was a friend of the Soviets (after all, he'd been involved with trying to kill Bolshevism in the cradle by supporting British intervention in the Russian Civil War). Churchill would probably be amenable to talk to a non-Nazi Germany about a conditional surrender that could include a guarantee of the 1937 borders. The question is whether he could talk the Americans into it or not. If not, then the July 1944 plotters are out of luck.
also you had to have the Soviets onboard since in no scenerio is the W.allies getting to Prussia before the red army
 
also you had to have the Soviets onboard since in no scenerio is the W.allies getting to Prussia before the red army

The Germans could decide to let British and American forces transit through their territory unmolested to deal with that. East Prussia wasn't taken by the Red Army until March 1945.
 
The Germans could decide to let British and American forces transit through their territory unmolested to deal with that.

The WAllied march in idea was certainly thought about by some of military resistance in France. I will say though Marshals in the West even if that was the outcome wanted a sit down with the WAllied generals (even of the Lee at Appomattox variety) where they would know vaguely what what happen to Germany.
 
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The Germans could decide to let British and American forces transit through their territory unmolested to deal with that. East Prussia wasn't taken by the Red Army until March 1945.

I remember that in one of your scenarios the reds created their own east germany in East Prussia. What if Stauffenberg surrendered immediately and the soviets only get that region, could the soviets create a DDR on that region?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Danzig under German control is ASB. If Germany could keep Danzig, then that would mean it won the war. I can’t imagine any scenario in which FDR would agree to this anyway.
 
I remember that in one of your scenarios the reds created their own east germany in East Prussia. What if Stauffenberg surrendered immediately and the soviets only get that region, could the soviets create a DDR on that region?

It's possible, though at the expense of pissing off the Poles, but Stalin was a Polonophobe so he wouldn't care.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
The soviets are in the middle of Belarus and the Baltics are still german, can't him hope that the allies accept the 1937 borders back if he stops the war immediately? This can prevent the soviets from taking over Hungary, Yugoslavia and the Czech republic,
It’s highly unlikely that the junta can achieve a clean takeover. There will almost certainly be a counter-coup attempt or even a full-scale civil war. Either way, Germany will be thrown into chaos and both the Soviets and the Western Allies will take advantage of that to advance even faster than they did OTL.

And while the coup-plotters might have been less delusional and expansionist than Hitler, that’s not a high bar to set. They didn’t want 1937 borders. All of them were determined to keep the 1914 borders, along with Austria and the Sudetenland at a minimum. Some of them even wanted to keep most of Poland. After the Allies completely reject their terms, the junta might try to offer better ones a few months later as the Soviet bulldozer gets even closer to the German heartland. But by then it’s too late for East Prussia, and chances are the junta would have blown its credibility in the eyes of the Western Allies anyways.
 
It’s highly unlikely that the junta can achieve a clean takeover. There will almost certainly be a counter-coup attempt or even a full-scale civil war. Either way, Germany will be thrown into chaos and both the Soviets and the Western Allies will take advantage of that to advance even faster than they did OTL.

And while the coup-plotters might have been less delusional and expansionist than Hitler, that’s not a high bar to set. They didn’t want 1937 borders. All of them were determined to keep the 1914 borders, along with Austria and the Sudetenland at a minimum. Some of them even wanted to keep most of Poland. After the Allies completely reject their terms, the junta might try to offer better ones a few months later as the Soviet bulldozer gets even closer to the German heartland. But by then it’s too late for East Prussia, and chances are the junta would have blown its credibility in the eyes of the Western Allies anyways.

If the coup plotters don't get their terms, I imagine they'd be like "well, better Anglo-American occupation than Soviet occupation" but maybe that's just me with 20/20 hindsight. In such a situation I wouldn't be surprised if Churchill got very pushy toward the Americans about renegotiating future occupation zones.
 
Probably not. Absolute best case is the July 20 plotters more or less let the WAllies march unopposed through France, Benelux, and Germany and fight like hell vs the Soviets so less of Germany would be Red after the war.

Odds are everything east of the Oder-Niesse line was going to be Soviet-dominated in some form or fashion even if that aforementioned best case happens. In reality the Allies probably laugh at Stauffenberg and say "hey, thanks for killing Hitler, that was swell...now surrender unconditionally."
July 1944 was several months before Yalta started in early 1945. A successful July plot could've resulted in the US ending up march farther East than OTL
 
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