If the Confederates chose Howell Cobb’s as a president

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JWQ

Gone Fishin'
It is not true that before Fort Sumter the majority of northerners favored letting the South go peacefully. There *was* some "good riddance--let them go" talk among some extreme anti-slavery men--but it is unclear how sincere it was. There is a good discussion of this in Stampp, *And the War Came*: "Charles Sumner advocated disunion--but only in private and largely as a kind of intellectual excursion into political theory. In practice he encouraged the movement to prepare the Massachusetts militia to defend Washington and enforce the laws. On November 27 Henry Ward Beecher boldly proclaimed that he cared little whether the South seceded. Two days later he preached a Thanksgiving Day sermon which raised the banners for a war against the Slave Power...For a proponent of peaceful disunion Garrison's Boston *Liberator* became surprisingly agitated about southern 'treason.' It charged that secessionists were determined to provoke a civil war and castigated the Democrats who allegedly opposed the punishment of 'traitors.'" Stampp also shows how Horace Greeley's alleged support of peaceful disunion was so qualified as to be meaningless. Most talk of voluntary disunion among anti-slavery men was really just meant to oppose the idea of saving the Union through yet another cowardly compromise with the Slave Power.

You may be misled by all the Northerners who said they did not advocate "coercion" of the South. Most of these people however supported "enforcment of the laws." To quote an old soc.history.what-if post of mine (sorry for any links that may no longer work):

***

In fairness, Buchanan in the same speech where he said that the federal
government could not force states to remain in the Union (even though he
not only averred that secession was illegal but IMO gave the best single
argument ever made against its legality [1]) did say that the federal
government had the duty to enforce the laws. This puzzling distinction
between "coercion of states" and "enforcement of the laws" was widespread
at the time--Republicans as well as Democrats used it. "Coercion" meant
marching an army into the South to compel the states to rescind their
ordinances of secession, return their Representatives and Senators to
Congress, haul down their flags, etc.; "enforcement of the laws" meant the
US government holding its own forts and other property and collecting the
tariffs. Furthermore, it was held that enforcement of the laws did not
mean using force against states, because federal laws acted upon
individuals (however numerous, and even if they included the governor, the
state legislators, etc.) not states.

For an example of a Republican using the same distinction, see Senator
Lyman Trumbull:

"This phrase, 'coerce a state,' is a phrase calculated to mislead the
public mind...Nobody proposes to declare war against a State. That would
admit at once that the State was out of the Union--a foreign Government.
Of course, we cannot declare war against a State. Nobody proposes to
coerce a State or to convict a State of treason. You cannot arraign a
State for trial; you cannot convict it or punish it; but you can punish
individuals...The Government has the power to coerce and to punish
individuals who violate its laws."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm

So Buchanan here is at worst guilty of a sophistry--if that is what it
was--[2] shared by Northern Democrats and Republicans alike (and by some
Southerners; Senator Andrew Johnson of Tennessee made remarks to the same
effect). Of course, the Republicans didn't see it that way because they
viewed his words in the context of four years of a blatantly pro-Southern
administration--and also in the context of the rest of the speech, where
Buchanan put the whole blame for the development of sectional conflict on
the North for its agitation of the slavery question.

(Though I think Buchanan was clear enough, I must acknowledge that some
distinguished scholars disagree. Andrew McLaughlin in his *Constitutional
History of the United States* writes "If, as has been asserted, President
Buchanan made a distinction between coercing states and enforcing the
execution of the laws on persons, he succeeded in clothing his utterances
with obscurity." http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm)

[1] "In that mighty struggle between the first intellects of this or any
other country, it never occurred to any individual, either among its
opponents or advocates, to assert or even to intimate that their efforts
were all vain labor, because the moment that any state felt herself
aggrieved she might secede from the Union. What a crushing argument would
this have proved against those who dreaded that the rights of the states
would be endangered by the Constitution!"
http://www.britannica.com/presidents/article-9398250 Indeed, if it had
been assumed at the time of the ratification of the Constitution that
there was a right to secede at will, the vehemence of the opposition to
the new document by the Antifederalists is utterly inexplicable.

[2] The distinction certainly looks like maddening hairsplitting to us
today, and seemed that way to most Southerners at the time. As Kenneth
Stampp wrote in *And the War Came,* it was not much comfort for
secessionists that the Yankee bayonet was a symbol, not of Coercion, but
of Law. Yet the distinction between the federal government acting on
states as such or on individuals did have firm roots in the intentions of
the Framers of the Constitution:

"Soon after the Convention adjourned Madison wrote to Jefferson: 'It was
generally agreed that the objects of the Union could not be secured by any
system founded on the principle of a confederation of Sovereign States. A
voluntary observance of the federal law by all the members could never be
hoped for. A compulsive one could evidently never be reduced to practice,
and if it could, involved equal calamities to the innocent & the guilty,
the necessity of a military force both obnoxious & dangerous, and in
general a scene resembling much more a civil war than the administration
of a regular Government. Hence was embraced the alternative of a
Government which instead of operating, on the States, should operate
without their intervention on the individuals composing them; and hence
the change in the principle and proportion of representation.' October 24,
1787. Madison, Writings (Gaillard Hunt, ed.), V, p. 19. Ellsworth,
addressing the Connecticut convention, said: 'Hence we see how necessary
for the Union is a coercive principle. No man pretends the contrary: we
all see and feel this necessity. The only question is, Shall it be a
coercion of law, or a coercion of arms? [Hamilton had used the same
expression in the Convention at Philadelphia, June 18] ... I am for
coercion by law--that coercion which acts only upon delinquent
individuals." Elliot, Debates, II, p. 197."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm
You ha
In particular, both Republicans and Democrats in the Old Northwest were not going to allow any of the Mississippi River to fall into the hands of a foreign power! Stephen Douglas said that "We can never acknowledge the right of a State to secede and cut us off from the ocean and the world, without our consent." http://books.google.com/books?id=eNg7AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA228 Yes, the South assured the Northwest that it would never interfere with navigation of the Mississippi. As Kenneth Stampp explained in *And the War Came*, most Northwesterners rejected these assurances: "These were mere 'paper guarantees' which the West would enjoy by the sufferance of a hostile people. At any time navigation rights could be revoked or subjected to whatever taxes or tribute Southerners desired to levy."

They are Americans need I remind you! The south also doesn’t advocate protectionism and this is a weak argument. Well the south has vital trade routes down the Mississippi River and they don’t want the commerce to stop 🛑. Cobb’s will warn the people if war comes this very well will disturb all commerce . Lincoln I could imagine before war has come Lincoln would eventually blockade the Deep South in there mission to collect tariffs at sea. The river is domestic trade and to close it or charge tariffs would Be to recognize they are separate if not independent. Douglas also favored surrendering the forts except in for 1 fort in Florida for coaling purposes only. Remember in history all that trade down the Mississippi went away,but that wasn’t what the wanted because that was there income! Even without Fort Sumter Douglas would support his country the Union,but would agree Lincoln bullied them.
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
It is not true that before Fort Sumter the majority of northerners favored letting the South go peacefully. There *was* some "good riddance--let them go" talk among some extreme anti-slavery men--but it is unclear how sincere it was. There is a good discussion of this in Stampp, *And the War Came*: "Charles Sumner advocated disunion--but only in private and largely as a kind of intellectual excursion into political theory. In practice he encouraged the movement to prepare the Massachusetts militia to defend Washington and enforce the laws. On November 27 Henry Ward Beecher boldly proclaimed that he cared little whether the South seceded. Two days later he preached a Thanksgiving Day sermon which raised the banners for a war against the Slave Power...For a proponent of peaceful disunion Garrison's Boston *Liberator* became surprisingly agitated about southern 'treason.' It charged that secessionists were determined to provoke a civil war and castigated the Democrats who allegedly opposed the punishment of 'traitors.'" Stampp also shows how Horace Greeley's alleged support of peaceful disunion was so qualified as to be meaningless. Most talk of voluntary disunion among anti-slavery men was really just meant to oppose the idea of saving the Union through yet another cowardly compromise with the Slave Power.

You may be misled by all the Northerners who said they did not advocate "coercion" of the South. Most of these people however supported "enforcment of the laws." To quote an old soc.history.what-if post of mine (sorry for any links that may no longer work):

***

In fairness, Buchanan in the same speech where he said that the federal
government could not force states to remain in the Union (even though he
not only averred that secession was illegal but IMO gave the best single
argument ever made against its legality [1]) did say that the federal
government had the duty to enforce the laws. This puzzling distinction
between "coercion of states" and "enforcement of the laws" was widespread
at the time--Republicans as well as Democrats used it. "Coercion" meant
marching an army into the South to compel the states to rescind their
ordinances of secession, return their Representatives and Senators to
Congress, haul down their flags, etc.; "enforcement of the laws" meant the
US government holding its own forts and other property and collecting the
tariffs. Furthermore, it was held that enforcement of the laws did not
mean using force against states, because federal laws acted upon
individuals (however numerous, and even if they included the governor, the
state legislators, etc.) not states.

For an example of a Republican using the same distinction, see Senator
Lyman Trumbull:

"This phrase, 'coerce a state,' is a phrase calculated to mislead the
public mind...Nobody proposes to declare war against a State. That would
admit at once that the State was out of the Union--a foreign Government.
Of course, we cannot declare war against a State. Nobody proposes to
coerce a State or to convict a State of treason. You cannot arraign a
State for trial; you cannot convict it or punish it; but you can punish
individuals...The Government has the power to coerce and to punish
individuals who violate its laws."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm

So Buchanan here is at worst guilty of a sophistry--if that is what it
was--[2] shared by Northern Democrats and Republicans alike (and by some
Southerners; Senator Andrew Johnson of Tennessee made remarks to the same
effect). Of course, the Republicans didn't see it that way because they
viewed his words in the context of four years of a blatantly pro-Southern
administration--and also in the context of the rest of the speech, where
Buchanan put the whole blame for the development of sectional conflict on
the North for its agitation of the slavery question.

(Though I think Buchanan was clear enough, I must acknowledge that some
distinguished scholars disagree. Andrew McLaughlin in his *Constitutional
History of the United States* writes "If, as has been asserted, President
Buchanan made a distinction between coercing states and enforcing the
execution of the laws on persons, he succeeded in clothing his utterances
with obscurity." http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm)

[1] "In that mighty struggle between the first intellects of this or any
other country, it never occurred to any individual, either among its
opponents or advocates, to assert or even to intimate that their efforts
were all vain labor, because the moment that any state felt herself
aggrieved she might secede from the Union. What a crushing argument would
this have proved against those who dreaded that the rights of the states
would be endangered by the Constitution!"
http://www.britannica.com/presidents/article-9398250 Indeed, if it had
been assumed at the time of the ratification of the Constitution that
there was a right to secede at will, the vehemence of the opposition to
the new document by the Antifederalists is utterly inexplicable.

[2] The distinction certainly looks like maddening hairsplitting to us
today, and seemed that way to most Southerners at the time. As Kenneth
Stampp wrote in *And the War Came,* it was not much comfort for
secessionists that the Yankee bayonet was a symbol, not of Coercion, but
of Law. Yet the distinction between the federal government acting on
states as such or on individuals did have firm roots in the intentions of
the Framers of the Constitution:

"Soon after the Convention adjourned Madison wrote to Jefferson: 'It was
generally agreed that the objects of the Union could not be secured by any
system founded on the principle of a confederation of Sovereign States. A
voluntary observance of the federal law by all the members could never be
hoped for. A compulsive one could evidently never be reduced to practice,
and if it could, involved equal calamities to the innocent & the guilty,
the necessity of a military force both obnoxious & dangerous, and in
general a scene resembling much more a civil war than the administration
of a regular Government. Hence was embraced the alternative of a
Government which instead of operating, on the States, should operate
without their intervention on the individuals composing them; and hence
the change in the principle and proportion of representation.' October 24,
1787. Madison, Writings (Gaillard Hunt, ed.), V, p. 19. Ellsworth,
addressing the Connecticut convention, said: 'Hence we see how necessary
for the Union is a coercive principle. No man pretends the contrary: we
all see and feel this necessity. The only question is, Shall it be a
coercion of law, or a coercion of arms? [Hamilton had used the samehttps://www.historynet.com/new-york-citys-secession-crisis.htm
expression in the Convention at Philadelphia, June 18] ... I am for
coercion by law--that coercion which acts only upon delinquent
individuals." Elliot, Debates, II, p. 197."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm
https://books.google.com/books/about/_.html?id=Oc5VDwAAQBAJoogle.com/books/about/_.html?id=Oc5VDwAAQBAJ
your facts are not true regarding must people where in favor of letting them go. Yes they are in favor of letting the south be let go of https://www.historynet.com/new-york-citys-secession-crisis.htm

It is unlikely nyc would succeed and even then once Lincoln was willing to use force they would easily enter back in the union. At best they still would unlikely succced because they wished to have free trade. Horatio Seymour New York democrat governor would have also been selected to help negotiate with the city to rejoin New York State again. During its separation Seymourmakes sure commerce will function normally.
It is true most northerners of course didn’t want to see them go ,but many didn’t want to kill there country men just to force them in the union. Especially when many people believed to restore a union is through peace negotiations (which Lincoln wasn’t for completely)not war. Without the upper south joining it dose not serve their states well.

well (except to avoid the protective tariffs)
Winfield Scott who mostly lives in New York was in favor of letting the south go peacefully. As a gesture of goodwillgive the forts to them. Lincoln’s choice did not make military sense unless he was favoring of them firing the first shots. Because Fort Sumter could easily be taken over by thecsa forces.
Regardless of any interpretation of the constitution a war to kill Americans is completely different then to kill foreigners. Yes if they refuse to attack the forts this hurts them taken seriously. Notice I have a unlikely event because of Spain’s intervention.Though there were earlier butterfly’s in my time line. It probably isn’t nessary ,because the border states would have confederate partisan conducting operations near dc . Major general Robert e lee First orders would be to organize and train up Union volunteers helping his suppiors Winfield Scott. Lee also finds himself defending against possible attacks. Well the upper south hasn’t succeeded so the demand wouldn’t be as big to defend Washington.
when fighting begins-lee defends against irregular Operations from the csa . Lee more reluctantly agrees to restore the union and quickly end the war. Union general Robert e Lee speaks out against session citing some of the founding fathers arguments against session.

Lee takes Charleston and Savannah and then issues plans to march to Atlanta Georgia. Until Virginia succeeds because of termination of The right of habeas corpus under executive law not congress.

when lee resigns his commission and sends the southern troops home including anyone who doesn’t want to fight anymore. He returns back to Virginia.
 
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If anyone doubts the determination of Northwesterners, both Republicans and Democrats, to maintain the Union, I suggest they read pp. 212-218 of Kenneth Stampp, *And the War Came*:


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JWQ

Gone Fishin'
If anyone doubts the determination of Northwesterners, both Republicans and Democrats, to maintain the Union, I suggest they read pp. 212-218 of Kenneth Stampp, *And the War Came*:


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Im not saying the would not turn out in great numbers after The destruction of the Union capital buildings . But with competent political leadership avoiding being portrayed as a aggressor is very important. Throughout history this has proved this.
As for people saying Cobb’s would be a better president. I am ignorant of any people other then the author of Cloptons confederate counter factual history book Clopton's Short History of the Confederate States of America, 1861-1925 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1463584539/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_G75EFbEJBK7F4

besides carol Scott I don’t know any other author who has said he would’ve done a better job. Many historians have notice Davis failures as a president and his leadership
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
Why not?The Potomac is wide enough to for a barrier, so it's just a matter of defending a few bridges.

In any case why would taking Washington matter? The War of 1812 wasn't called off when the British Army burnt it. The government just moves to Philadelphia until enough troops arrive to retake the Capital. Any CS forces that try to hold it will be fighting with their backs to a wide river.
You do bring a good point! Well it matters psychologically for the war effort. If the confederate win Manasses and decided for the soldiers to take the capital.

Cobbs orders Beauregard to cross the stone bridge with his troops and pursue them during the night. Cobbs orders Unengaged forces to march on Centreville Threatening the retreating forces and to advance to the capital. Jackson cuts off communication/supplies by blocking the railway forcing the union out of Dc General lee Gives information of potential weak in the defense if nessary.
Stonewall Jackson actually told Davis give me 5,000 fresh troops we will take it tomorrow morning! General McDowell had only 5,00o troops posted there. Well Jackson is a very competent commander so even though they have defenses Jackson might even be Abel to take it with just that’s! The csa force’s forces oare focusing on taking the retreated enemy’s supply lines.
The other forces could be used as reinforcements to take dc.

no southern attack could stop a attack on centralville.
All the confederates actually have to do is cut off all supply lines there

“”A president who just lost the capital is unlikely to inspire hispeople to undertake A painful task of reunification. “” such a victory would psychologically devastate the Union at least as much as defeating a union army on northern soil.

Britain and France see that the south one and it’s very likely they will recognize them or at the very least intervene in 1862.

thinking of course would be rallying people to invade the capital again . George B McClellan is different he want to take Richmond instead
 
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The issues is three for an attack on Washington in 1861. One is the confederacy were badly disorganized as well. Two it rained the following day which made it hard to keep up a pursuit. Three the US had already started fortifying and being reinforced by 3 years troops. Stonewall Jackson Brigade was in no shape to advance and he himself was wounded. I also read that the confederate had supply issues as well.
 
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Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
The other thing is that the OP is trying (I think - it's hard to understand some of the posts) to put the "blame" for the war on Lincoln deciding to resupply federal forts in the Southern states and ignore the fact that the Southern States have just raised an army, invaded the North, burnt or heavily damaged the federal capitol and probably misbehaved while doing so.

And yet Lincoln is the aggressor?
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
The issues is three for an attack on Washington in 1861. One is the confederacy were badly disorganized as well. Two it rained the following day which made it hard to keep up a pursuit. Three the US had already started fortifying and being reinforced by 3 years troops. Stonewall Jackson Brigade was in no shape to advance and he himself was wounded. I also read that the confederate had supply issues as well.
We are talking about in 1861 not 1862 . The csa first needs to attack those supply lines forcing the union to abounded the city . Longstreet actually did have reserved forces that where not engaged at bull run . Wasn’t stonewall Jackson shot in the hand 🖐 ? Not only is that not a major flesh wound it didn’t stop him from doing his duty. He should get a doctor 🥼 And patch him up . Remember Albert Sidney Johnston if he just had a doctor to give them a tourniquet I recall he would have been fine instead of bleeding 🩸 to death.

as for the rivers well they could use bridges or boats 🚣‍♂️. Actually it looks like that they could actually cross during the day .

however I’m having my ball run during the fall so things are different .The south just needs to convince them to run away .
Little Mac was the one who primarily fortified it to the point you would need siege weapon to maybe take over the city possibly with heavy losses to.

the defenses around the capital yes there where some,but it wouldn’tbe impossible or to bloody.Stonewall Jackson is good if not very good at avoiding the brute frontal strengths of a enemy army . Jackson speciality was going for weak spots and outflanking I recall. Jackson was good attricking a enemy with his leadership I say it’s possibly
 
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Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
We are talking about in 1861 not 1862 . The csa first needs to attack those supply lines forcing the union to abound on the city . He actually did have reserved forces that where not engaged at bull run .
So did the Union. Most of the troops at Bull Run didn't fight (on either side).

Four days after Bull Run a division from Pennsylvania arrived in Washington.
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
The other thing is that the OP is trying (I think - it's hard to understand some of the posts) to put the "blame" for the war on Lincoln deciding to resupply federal forts in the Southern states and ignore the fact that the Southern States have just raised an army, invaded the North, burnt or heavily damaged the federal capitol and probably misbehaved while doing so.

And yet Lincoln is the aggressor?
Well the confederates should never have attacked Fort Sumter. He did provoke the south in to firing the first shots. If the south forced Lincoln to be the aggressor by blockadeing or attacking the south this would give dishonest Abe appear a aggressor. Lincoln doesn’t have as many volunteers and most of them would be from New England . Now he would have troops elsewhere.
Everyone thought the war would last only 90 days. If the south was defeated 😕 The Union would be Abel to march to Richmond without big enough opposition to stop them. The csa isn’t invading the north they are taking back the USA 🇺🇸 capital that is southern . Cobb’s (any competent leader ) would likely warn those forces not to destroy the buildings because we plan to use them. The south’s objective is remember cutting of supplies to force the union to evacuate. Yeah if the union is retreating then the Confederates can advance Beyond the bridges.

you you got me there I don’t know what areas are shallow or deep enough to cross the Patomac River
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
So did the Union. Most of the troops at Bull Run didn't fight (on either side).

Four days after Bull Run a division from Pennsylvania arrived in Washington.

well considering Union forces would run way I think I those Pennsylvania troops would follow the same Story. If Lincoln truly did start the civil war a lot of those troops wouldn’t be there in the first place possible. Second the confederate forces could defend the city if there a enemyattack of a Pennsylvania division. Once they took dc they would ask for a armistice immediately. As a gesture of goodwill if the south will returnsome northern historical documents,politicians and enemy soldiers

Cobb tels the news papers and Lincoln leave us be! We have told from the beginning just leave us alone!
Your forces have been defeated and skedaddled . Until a peace treaty is signed under executive order Cobb’s will declare the csa capital confederate to build legitimacy. The constitution and Declaration of Independence have been returned to Virginia. If you sighn a treaty the capital will be returned. If the north keeps fighting then he will destroy the capital buildings and move the capital again.
Last no where do I see that at bull run that it 🌧 that night in fact it was a full moon 🌕 .

the Union army garrisoned would be more focused on makeup sure the civilians,government and soldiers will evacuated. Of course Union troops could stall the confederates with there Down scale fortifications ,but they likely could not evacuate every politician. Lincoln would order civilians first then government.Abe himself almost gets captured and is disguised in black face cowering.
 
well considering Union forces would run way I think I those Pennsylvania troops would follow the same Story. If Lincoln truly did start the civil war a lot of those troops wouldn’t be there in the first place possible. Second the confederate forces could defend the city if there a enemyattack of a Pennsylvania division. Once they took dc they would ask for a armistice immediately. As a gesture of goodwill if the south will returnsome northern historical documents,politicians and enemy soldiers

Cobb tels the news papers and Lincoln leave us be! We have told from the beginning just leave us alone!
Your forces have been defeated and skedaddled . Until a peace treaty is signed under executive order Cobb’s will declare the csa capital confederate to build legitimacy. The constitution and Declaration of Independence have been returned to Virginia. If you sighn a treaty the capital will be returned. If the north keeps fighting then he will destroy the capital buildings and move the capital again.
Last no where do I see that at bull run that it 🌧 that night in fact it was a full moon 🌕 .

the Union army garrisoned would be more focused on makeup sure the civilians,government and soldiers will evacuated. Of course Union troops could stall the confederates with there Down scale fortifications ,but they likely could not evacuate every politician. Lincoln would order civilians first then government.Abe himself almost gets captured and is disguised in black face cowering.
"Would run away"? How is it preordained that Union forces would retreat? The Union soldiers were good soldiers and were not cowards as you seem to be implying.
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
"Would run away"? How is it preordained that Union forces would retreat? The Union soldiers were good soldiers and were not cowards as you seem to be implying.
No I never siad they where cowards at all! That was what a Lot of war or battles are is get the troops to retreat or rout. Ps the union forces did run away in great panic at bull run 🏃. The propaganda would be have more believer (if the south took DC ) any southern could beat at least 10 Yankees . But that propaganda was stupid,ignorant and arrogant .
 

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No I never siad they where cowards at all! That was what a Lot of war or battles are is get the troops to retreat or rout. Ps the union forces did run away in great panic at bull run 🏃. The propaganda would be have more believer (if the south took DC ) any southern could beat at least 10 Yankees . But that propaganda was stupid,ignorant and arrogant .
But you're presupposing a retreat. If other things change a retreat at Bull Run can't be assumed.
 

Derek Pullem

Kicked
Donor
You know it's quite hard not to think of much of what you are writing as very dubious "lost cause" wish fulfilment.

Plenty of raw Confederate troops ran when they "faced the elephant"
 

JWQ

Gone Fishin'
But you're presupposing a retreat. If other things change a retreat at Bull Run can't be assumed.
Well there are not extreme changes. Yes in reality union forces ran away. Y’all probably are biased for the north or in the lost cause theory that the south never could win.
 
Well there are not extreme changes. Yes in reality union forces ran away. Y’all probably are biased for the north or in the lost cause theory that the south never could win.
You're calling me biased when you're using a "running away" emoji to describe Union forces.
 
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