If the Confederacy Wins the Civil War, Does the United States Move Its Capital?

If the Confederacy Loses the Civil War, Does the United States Move Its Capital?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 51.8%

  • No

    Votes: 54 48.2%
  • Total voters
    112

Fabius Maximus

The Tai-Pan said:
I'm more curious..does the CSA move their capital?
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If the US gets a significant part of northern Virginia, they might do.

On the other hand, if they've just won a war against the northern states, they might well be confident in their ability to do so again, and hence see no real need to move their capital south.
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

Anaxagoras said:
This question is a significant plot point in my novella Blessed Are The Peacemakers. But even if a chunk of northern Virginia is ceded to the United States, it will only improve, rather than guarantee, the security of Washington in any future conflict. Besides, even if such a cession of territory and the incredible fortifications did ensure that the Confederacy would never capture the city, would anyone want their capital city so near the front lines of a war. If nothing else, it would hurt the country's bond rating.
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Well it all depends on the range of modern artillery. I think a massive fortification program around Washington would be in the offing no matter what, but they would be reluctant to make such a symbolic surrender to Confederate pride. Though I think that "back up" institutions and locations would be in place at somewhere like Philadelphia, and most official correspondence would be stored there.

The Tai-Pan said:
I think in most CSA victories, a large chunk of northern Virginia is going to be lost, added either to Maryland or West Virginia. The CSA doesn't hold anything of enough value to trade to get it back at the table. I think D.C. should be secure.
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D.C. is probably secure in the sense that it could be fortified to the extent that the Confederates would be unlikely to take it without heavy artillery, but when you get Great War era artillery brought up, only the most extensive and dense trenches would be safe. It would still turn the region into a moonscape though...
 
Laqueesha

Laqueesha

TFSmith121 said:
True - as it was, almost from the beginning of the conflict, the US was on the offensive and liberating "rebel" territory. There are a series of maps available at the MHC website that lay out the front lines year by year; the rebels are retreating from the spring of 1861:
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Indeed. The C.S. spent the entire war losing territory to the U.S.; not to mention the U.S. captured Alexandria early on in the war.
 

The Tai-Pan

TFSmith121 said:
Yeah, but see, that doesn't reinforce the meme of grey-clad cavaliers (or red-coated ones, sometimes) holding down the lower sorts and aligning with their betters, don' ch know...;)

Satire - of course we know that's not what all the neo-confederate wish-fulfillment is all about; It's about heritage, not hate!

Best,
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History not politics in this section, please.


I wonder if cities will grow differently in an independent CSA then OTL? Would New Orleans grow to be a southern NYC and Birmingham a southern Pittsburgh? Or would both be smaller and poorer?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
The Tai-Pan said:
History not politics in this section, please.


I wonder if cities will grow differently in an independent CSA then OTL? Would New Orleans grow to be a southern NYC and Birmingham a southern Pittsburgh? Or would both be smaller and poorer?
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But what is war but politics by other means? ;)

Somebody famous said that once...

Best,
 

Japhy

Banned
The Tai-Pan said:
I wonder if cities will grow differently in an independent CSA then OTL? Would New Orleans grow to be a southern NYC and Birmingham a southern Pittsburgh? Or would both be smaller and poorer?
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Smaller and poorer undoubtedly, Birmingham's rise was based on northern Finance and New York's burst to international prominence was due to the Erie canal offering to it the markets of the interior, which New Orleans won't have nearly as much of.


TFSmith121 said:
Yeah, but see, that doesn't reinforce the meme of grey-clad cavaliers (or red-coated ones, sometimes) holding down the lower sorts and aligning with their betters, don' ch know...;)

Best,
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TFSmith121 said:
But what is war but politics by other means? ;)

Somebody famous said that once...

Best,
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Who are you trying to impress?
 
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EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

The Tai-Pan said:
History not politics in this section, please.
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Smith has a particular bee up the bonnet over this issue. It almost wouldn't be a Civil War thread without the frequent attempts at maligning the views of those who disagree with.

The Tai-Pan said:
I wonder if cities will grow differently in an independent CSA then OTL? Would New Orleans grow to be a southern NYC and Birmingham a southern Pittsburgh? Or would both be smaller and poorer?
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As Japhy said, smaller and poorer most likely. They may still grow with the CSA, but it's only New Orleans that I could see doing almost as well as OTL with its beneficial geographic position.

The prospect of the CSA having a city with a population of over a million is nil.
 

Japhy

Banned
Anaxagoras said:
If the United States capital were to be moved, to what city would it be moved?
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Well one of the aspects of the decision to take Washington was it was near the center of population at the time of its choosing, by that standard, and by the political weight of the thing somewhere in Ohio makes sense. If not that, probably a return to Philadelphia or New York.
 

Fabius Maximus

TFSmith121 said:
Yeah, but see, that doesn't reinforce the meme of grey-clad cavaliers (or red-coated ones, sometimes) holding down the lower sorts and aligning with their betters, don' ch know...;)

Satire - of course we know that's not what all the neo-confederate wish-fulfillment is all about; It's about heritage, not hate!

Best,
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Maybe you'd like to quote some posts on this forum expressing these sorts of sentiments.
 
Georgepatton

Georgepatton

The Tai-Pan said:
I'm more curious..does the CSA move their capital?
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They did have an identical provision in their constitution about state ceding territory to create a federal district for a capital.

Japhy said:
Well one of the aspects of the decision to take Washington was it was near the center of population at the time of its choosing, by that standard, and by the political weight of the thing somewhere in Ohio makes sense. If not that, probably a return to Philadelphia or New York.
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Would they want to wedge themselves back into some part of an already-existing major city? I'm not saying they wouldn't, I know how much people complained about what a no-where swamp DC was regularly, just wondering.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
It would make for an interesting political tug-of-war, with the Westerners pushing for Chicago, Pennsylvanians for Philadelphia, New Yorkers for New York, and so forth.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Japhy said:
Smaller and poorer undoubtedly, Birmingham's rise was based on northern Finance and New York's burst to international prominence was due to the Erie canal offering to it the markets of the interior, which New Orleans won't have nearly as much of.

Who are you trying to impress?
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Von Clausewitz?

He's a Rebel, and we're going to build a wall...

Best,
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Anaxagoras said:
Assume that the war ends with the border between the CSA and the USA being the Potomac River. The POD isn't especially important and can be any number of different things, so please be a gentleman and don't derail the thread.
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If the POD isn't important, then obviously, you can make up whatever you wish, of course. If you can't provide one, why ask for the opinion of the board, otherwise?

If there's an international border on the Potomac, and Virginia and Maryland are on two sides of said border, do the Americans just give up control of Alexandria and the other locations south of the river that were held successfully from 1861?

Best,
 
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