If taiwan became muslim

If taiwan became muslim

I was wondering if the colonization of South east Asia never happened and Islam reached Taiwan what do you think would happen?
 
Well, it's not that improbable I suppose, I mean the Indonesian archipelago was Muslim for quite along time, if some explorers from one of the Sultanates their found Taiwan before Portugal had or China claimed it, their's a chance it well could be.

I'm not sure how much of an affect it would have on world history, you may have the ROC forces not going their since it probably would never have become Chinese.
 

Hendryk

Banned
To have Muslim traders reach Taiwan isn't implausible per se, after all they made it to the southern Philippines in OTL, and there was seaborne trade between China and the Middle East as early as the Tang dynasty. But IMHO it wouldn't have made such a big difference, since until the 17th century Taiwan was only populated by stone-age aboriginal tribes. Those were crowded out between the 17th and 19th centuries by Chinese settlers from Fujian, and this would have taken place whichever religion the aborigines had. As for the Chinese themselves, I don't see why they would have turned to Islam.
 
Luzon was one of the barriers to islamization of taiwan when it became christian,The island of Luzon was being ISLAMIZED by bornean missionaries sponsored by it's main kingdom when the spanish came but if Luzon was not conquered by spanish Luzon would most likely side with Axis on world war 2 it would be a mix of Iraq and Thailand and maybe dubai as well.

If Taiwan was Islamized do you think that It would be colonized by japan and china?
 

Hendryk

Banned
The island of Luzon was being ISLAMIZED by bornean missionaries when the spanish came but if Luzon was not conquered by spanish Luzon would most likely side with Axis on world war 2 it would be a mix of Iraq and Thailand and maybe dubai as well.
There's something you need to keep in mind: with a POD that early, WW2 is probably butterflied away. We're pretty strict followers of chaos theory here.
 

Hendryk

Banned
If taiwan was Islamized do you think japan or china will conquer it?
I reiterate my earlier point: before the 17th century, Taiwan was populated by stone-age aborigines whose religion wasn't a factor in OTL and wouldn't be either if they somehow were to convert to Islam. China did not so much "conquer" Taiwan as allow it to be swamped with settlers from the mainland.
 

Philip

Donor
In what way?

The events that led up to WW2 are dependent on all history stretching back to the beginning of time. If you remove European involvement from SE Asia, it is doubtful that WW2 (at least as we know it) would ever come about.
 
I reiterate my earlier point: before the 17th century, Taiwan was populated by stone-age aborigines whose religion wasn't a factor in OTL and wouldn't be either if they somehow were to convert to Islam. China did not so much "conquer" Taiwan as allow it to be swamped with settlers from the mainland.

Do you think that they can be improved by Islamization....
 
Make the drive to the east (from India and Arabia) and north (from the East Indies) much stronger speed and contact wise.

Really delay European's searching for a more direct route to the east, probably keeping the trade routes in the Middle East less hostile to Europeans.

The main point is to keep the Europeans out of the East Indies for at least 200 years and have a stronger Muslim conversion efforts.
 
Religion does not equal improving of society, as all religions can influence society in both good and bad ways, and vice versa.

Agree about your general "getting better isn't inevitable" and "not all will be better" points, but history has proven when a religion comes to an area, it's not just bringing "illumination", but also a politico-economical selling point. At least in Indonesia, by converting to Islam, some states actually gained at least not so small advantages such as access to huge addition of market complexes across the Indian Ocean for their products and some other things that meant "greater flow of money inwards". Also, Islam and Hinduism has this important difference in viewing this "caste" problem, which sometimes meant a quite radical socio-political revolutions in some societies, radical for that time's standard at least.

How Islam would have changed Taiwan though, is maybe later to be answered after we've finished discussed about "how will Taiwan become Muslim" first. It seems to me that at least since the beginning of Anno Domini era their only most extensive contact has been only with mainland China, and even that in mostly technical sense, for most of the time. To be frank I've never heard of Taiwan making other meaningful contact with other regions, it had been that secluded until relatively recently. Though I'm rather interested about how would the absent of Spanish in Luzon(maybe Magellan never reached Phillipines, or maybe he never defected to Spain, or he died in Morocco/never existed in the first place) would provide some a bit long term potential. But I think that the best way to achieve this scenario, one would have to make a freaking change in China.
 
Agree about your general "getting better isn't inevitable" and "not all will be better" points, but history has proven when a religion comes to an area, it's not just bringing "illumination", but also a politico-economical selling point. At least in Indonesia, by converting to Islam, some states actually gained at least not so small advantages such as access to huge addition of market complexes across the Indian Ocean for their products and some other things that meant "greater flow of money inwards". Also, Islam and Hinduism has this important difference in viewing this "caste" problem, which sometimes meant a quite radical socio-political revolutions in some societies, radical for that time's standard at least.

How Islam would have changed Taiwan though, is maybe later to be answered after we've finished discussed about "how will Taiwan become Muslim" first. It seems to me that at least since the beginning of Anno Domini era their only most extensive contact has been only with mainland China, and even that in mostly technical sense, for most of the time. To be frank I've never heard of Taiwan making other meaningful contact with other regions, it had been that secluded until relatively recently. Though I'm rather interested about how would the absent of Spanish in Luzon(maybe Magellan never reached Phillipines, or maybe he never defected to Spain, or he died in Morocco/never existed in the first place) would provide some a bit long term potential. But I think that the best way to achieve this scenario, one would have to make a freaking change in China.
Why a change in china is needed to islamize taiwan?
 
That Islam wouldn't magically make Taiwan civilized is very true.
However whatever changes we make in order to spread Islam there could well have a impact- tying Taiwan in with a big muslim Indonesia-Philipines-Elsewhere to such a extent that they care about Taiwan....
 
That Islam wouldn't magically make Taiwan civilized is very true.
However whatever changes we make in order to spread Islam there could well have a impact- tying Taiwan in with a big muslim Indonesia-Philipines-Elsewhere to such a extent that they care about Taiwan....

The Boat People's Caliphate, of course! :D;)

On a serious note, I'm afraid I have to agree with most people here: Islamized Taiwanese natives would change probably very little, given how the Aboriginal Taiwanese make up barely 2% of the present-day population.

The only thing that I could see maybe happening (if anything really happened - and also disregarding all butterflies, oh vey!) is an Islamic separatist/terrorist organization a la Mindanao or Aceh, and frankly, that wouldn't be an improvement for the Native Taiwanese. :(
 
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This is probably coming from an uninformed point of view, but could it be likely for Zheng He who was a Hui Muslim to establish a trading/restocking post in Taiwan for Chinese sailors and major travel missions.

He did after all reputedly establish many Chinese muslim communities in South East Asia, so it doesn't seem too impossible to me that a few settlements could be built in Taiwan.

Also IIRC, there was intermittent bouts of massacres and heavy discrimination towards the Hui by the Han, not to mention rebellions started by the Hui and other ethnic minorities themselves throughout the centuries. So such settlements could be attractive to those wishing to escape discrimination and for the governments who wanted to rid the mainland of radical/rebellious elements.

As for the cultural and demographic impact on the Taiwanese Aborigines, I don't see anything too positive in the works. Most invading forces have attempted cultural assimilation or at least cultural suppression.
 
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This is probably coming from an uninformed point of view, but could it be likely for Zheng He who was a Hui Muslim to establish a trading/restocking post in Taiwan for Chinese sailors and major travel missions.

He did after all reputedly establish many Chinese muslim communities in South East Asia, so it doesn't seem too impossible to me that a few settlements could be built in Taiwan.

Also IIRC, there was intermittent bouts of massacres and heavy discrimination towards the Hui by the Han, not to mention rebellions started by the Hui and other ethnic minorities themselves throughout the centuries. So such settlements could be attractive to those wishing to escape discrimination and for the governments who wanted to rid the mainland of radical/rebellious elements.

As for the cultural and demographic impact on the Taiwanese Aborigines, I don't see anything too positive in the works. Most invading forces have attempted cultural assimilation or at least cultural suppression.
This is mainly about Native Taiwanese being islamized not Han Chinese of Taiwan being islamized...
 

Valdemar II

Banned
People forget that if Taiwan was Islamised, it would also adopt a lot of crops and technology from Indonesia, likely the native population would be a lot bigger, when Han settlers arrive, which could result in a less Chinese Taiwan.
 
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