If Stonewall Jackson Survived The Civil War....

[Soundgarden]

So I just bought the Civil War in Color book and I was reading how Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, Confederate General, was wounded and eventually died from his injuries.

That was considered a huge blow to the Confederacy and possibly sped up their defeat by the Union.

My question is, if Jackson wasn't killed, could the Civil War have lasted longer, and maybe possibly win(or had a better chance of winning).

Thoughts?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Iffy question. Jackson was without a doubt a very skilled general and an excellent strategist, but I don't think he could have prolonged the war by very long.

His successor and student, Jubal Early, had similar stunning victories using Jackson's tactics, however, he was hamstrung by lack of supplies and essentially facing insurmountable odds. Jackson would have faced the same problems and though he may have been able to make some major setbacks for the Union he alone couldn't tip the balance.

 

[Elfwine]

I'd say it would be possible, but only in the sense events that might lead there might happen.

Jackson surviving does not guarantee (even in the sense nothing is guaranteed) anything.

 

[RousseauX]

Actually here's a better question.

If the Civil war ends ~1865 anyway (highly likely) what would Jackson do post-war, go Lee's path and remain relatively unpolitical, go Jubal Early or even Forrest's path of unapologetic preservation of antebellum southern society, or go Longstreet and side with the reconstruction?

 

[Elfwine]

I suspect #1, although less as a matter of making a point of it and more just being absorbed in other things (such as his family).

Would be interesting if he'd return to his job at VMI or not. Jackson seems to have liked teaching despite being a bad teacher.

 

[Reggie Bartlett]

Lee still plans TTL's Gettysburg Campaign.

Jackson probably stresses going for Cemetery Ridge on the First Day. Victory however, still unassured.

 

[Elfwine]

Lee still plans TTL's Gettysburg Campaign.

Jackson probably stresses going for Cemetery Ridge on the First Day. Victory however, still unassured.

Let's start from the beginning. Will Lee reorganize his army into three corps with Jackson still around?

It's an open question.

If he does, does he pick A.P. Hill (who has not exactly resolved feud with Jackson) to command the third corps?

Does Davis accept the reorganization? OTL he did, but he might have an objection to something TTL - it needs to be addressed, at least.


Is Jackson healthy enough to lead his corps? "Survived" doesn't necessarily mean he's fit to take the field in June and July - and if not, who takes his corps?

Etc.

So assuming that you can just treat it as "What if Jackson was in Ewell's shoes?" doesn't work.

 

[Nytram01]

Actually here's a better question.

If the Civil war ends ~1865 anyway (highly likely) what would Jackson do post-war, go Lee's path and remain relatively unpolitical, go Jubal Early or even Forrest's path of unapologetic preservation of antebellum southern society, or go Longstreet and side with the reconstruction?

Being such a devout Christain with a firm belief in providence I think Jackson would just accept that the Confederacy was doomed to fail and get on with his life post-war. I doubt he'd go into politics, I doubt he'd side for or against reconstruction and I doubt he'd write memoirs - doesn't strike me as the type.

 

[Nytram01]

Let's start from the beginning. Will Lee reorganize his army into three corps with Jackson still around?

It's an open question.

If he does, does he pick A.P. Hill (who has not exactly resolved feud with Jackson) to command the third corps?

Does Davis accept the reorganization? OTL he did, but he might have an objection to something TTL - it needs to be addressed, at least.


Is Jackson healthy enough to lead his corps? "Survived" doesn't necessarily mean he's fit to take the field in June and July - and if not, who takes his corps?

Etc.

So assuming that you can just treat it as "What if Jackson was in Ewell's shoes?" doesn't work.

Davis did seem rather resistant to change in organization of Armies or Departments, so without Jackson's death he might resist the change of Corps, if Lee even attempts to do it with Jackson still alive.

I think Jackson would have to take a leave of absence to recover from hims wounds - could be weeks or months - so he'll need a temporary replacement to command his Corps - just like Longstreet had in the Overland Campaign - and Ewell's the most likely one to fit that role I'd think.

So Jackson's likely to miss out of Gettysburg regardless or whether he survives or not - assuming Lee still goes north. He'd be back for the Mine Run Campaign.

 

[Jim Smitty]

Actually here's a better question.

If the Civil war ends ~1865 anyway (highly likely) what would Jackson do post-war, go Lee's path and remain relatively unpolitical, go Jubal Early or even Forrest's path of unapologetic preservation of antebellum southern society, or go Longstreet and side with the reconstruction?

From what I seen of Jackson, I saw he would did what Longstreet did and work to rebuild the Union.

 

[tallthinkev]

The war may last another 6-8 months max with him still about. After the war maybe asked to join the army and head out west. A Little Big Horn type battle with Jackson and not Custer?

 

[SPJ]

I'd like to add my own questions to this discussion. I'm planning a TL in which one change is that Jackson survives his bout of pneumonia after his arm is amputated but suffers repeated bouts and infections afterward and remains away from the field in recovery for over a year until mid-late 1864. What I'd like to know is what the other people on this thread think Jackson would end up doing if returned to the field around this time, what might his assaigments be, and how might he try to changes things in the areas he is assigned to. Also what types of changes would Jackson's mere survival minus involvement in the war cause? Could he give military advice from his bedside that may cause any changes(doubtful but I figured I'd ask)? I'd imagine Davis might replace Early with Jackson but I'm not sure on that.

Also just for conversations sake if Jackson was to attack DC like Early did in the summer of 1864 what things might he do differently that would either lengthen or shorten the campaign?

 

[Elfwine]

Davis did seem rather resistant to change in organization of Armies or Departments, so without Jackson's death he might resist the change of Corps, if Lee even attempts to do it with Jackson still alive.

I think Jackson would have to take a leave of absence to recover from hims wounds - could be weeks or months - so he'll need a temporary replacement to command his Corps - just like Longstreet had in the Overland Campaign - and Ewell's the most likely one to fit that role I'd think.

So Jackson's likely to miss out of Gettysburg regardless or whether he survives or not - assuming Lee still goes north. He'd be back for the Mine Run Campaign.

Seems sound (as your posts have always been ).

It would be interesting to see what Ewell does after Jackson returns. But that's probably dependent on more than we can do without much elaboration.

SPJ: Jackson probably just does what the OTL 2nd Corps commander (Early fort most of that period) did. Same assignments, etc. Although maybe not if his recovery is delayed that long (just as Early wound up getting permament and not just temporary command of Ewell's division), in which case I suspect the AoT gets him.

He might do a bit better in the Valley given his lack of loathing of cavalry - then again, the Valley cavalry was full of rot and indiscipline.

Really, it depends on what's going on in the war when he returns.

 

[SPJ]

Seems sound (as your posts have always been ).

It would be interesting to see what Ewell does after Jackson returns. But that's probably dependent on more than we can do without much elaboration.

SPJ: Jackson probably just does what the OTL 2nd Corps commander (Early fort most of that period) did. Same assignments, etc. Although maybe not if his recovery is delayed that long (just as Early wound up getting permament and not just temporary command of Ewell's division), in which case I suspect the AoT gets him.

He might do a bit better in the Valley given his lack of loathing of cavalry - then again, the Valley cavalry was full of rot and indiscipline.

Really, it depends on what's going on in the war when he returns.

Do you think he could change anything withing the year before he returns to the front though? I not sure if he could but is there any history of generals giving miltary advice/orders during a time of medical recovery in the ACW?

 

[Japhy]

So I just bought the
My question is, if Jackson wasn't killed, could the Civil War have lasted longer, and maybe possibly win(or had a better chance of winning).

Thoughts?

First I'd say Jackson's survival isn't going to change the situation drastically enough to end it in a CS defeat, that was settled upon months before Jackson's death.

Second, if Jackson survives to see *Appomattox one can expect to see him be a member of the same sort of social clubs/political circles that other Confederate officers like Wade Hampton III, John B. Gordon, and Nathan Bedford Forrest partook in after the end of the war.

 

[Elfwine]

First I'd say Jackson's survival isn't going to change the situation drastically enough to end it in a CS defeat, that was settled upon months before Jackson's death.

Second, if Jackson survives to see *Appomattox one can expect to see him be a member of the same sort of social clubs/political circles that other Confederate officers like Wade Hampton III, John B. Gordon, and Nathan Bedford Forrest partook in after the end of the war.

Why? Jackson has very little in common with those three men besides uniform.

SPJ: No. I'm sure you can find someone making plans and so on, but I doubt they'd be listened to - most of what Jackson said strategically wasn't listened to (for instance, his plan to invade the North after his Valley campaign) when well, either.

Also, I think a Jackson in such poor health is going to be preoccupied by God and family, not necessarily in that order.

 

[Japhy]

Why? Jackson has very little in common with those three men besides uniform.

Because restoring "proper" government and keeping the freedmen in place will be just the sort of thing for a religious bigot to do in the post war world. He would certainly be well placed to lead Redeemers in Virginia, and he'd have little problem partaking in such a crusade.

 

[SPJ]

Because restoring "proper" government and keeping the freedmen in place will be just the sort of thing for a religious bigot to do in the post war world. He would certainly be well placed to lead Redeemers in Virginia, and he'd have little problem partaking in such a crusade.

By putting proper in quotations I'm assuming you mean government controlled by southerners. If so they yeah I could imagine him being for that.In regards to keeping freedmen "in place" by subjegating them I'm not so sure. I'm not sure if any records on Jackson's opinions about race and race-relations exist but he was sympathetic toward black people from what I know. Also I recall that he was against slavery but accepted its existence as the will of God. In a Union victory TL where Stonewall lives I'd imagine he'd see the freeing of the slaves also as God's will and would not fight it. Hell he may even pull a Longstreet and lead troops against organizations like the White League and KKK. Now that would be an interesting TL! But those are only my thoughts.

 

[Elfwine]

Because restoring "proper" government and keeping the freedmen in place will be just the sort of thing for a religious bigot to do in the post war world. He would certainly be well placed to lead Redeemers in Virginia, and he'd have little problem partaking in such a crusade.

Bigot?

When did Jackson go from devoutly pious to "bigot"?

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think we're casting an aspersion or two on Jackson here.

 

[Kaptin Kurk]

Eh, I'd prefer it if Jackson never got shot than if he just survived his injury. Takes out all the recovery time. I suspect there is no re-organization, and the Army of North Virginia remains on offensive footing longer. This probably buys the confederacy 3-5 months, and the cost of another 10-30k
casualties.