If Russia Had Found Alaskan Gold Might They Have Kept Alaska?

[Rhomaion1]

Alaska and its environs have had three significant gold rushes, the Klondike Gold Rush near Dawson City that happened from 1896 to 1899 in what is today the Yukon Territory about 100km from the Alaska border, the Nome Gold Rush from 1899 to 1909 on the western Alaskan coast, and the Fairbanks Gold Rush from 1903 to 1911 in the Alaskan interior. considering how much gold rushes tend to attract population to an area suppose that the Russian colonists were a bit more exploratory and adventurous and managed to discover the gold deposits much earlier than OTL, let's say in the early 1800's, maybe around the War of 1812.

Could the discovery of gold, no matter how transitory, have attracted enough colonists or government interest to the area that the empire would hold on to it and establish more of a presence there? And if so, how might that have affected colonization in the Pacific Northwest and Northwestern Canada?

 

[wietze]

alaskaya gets taken away from russia by the british after the crimean war

 

[Rhomaion1]

alaskaya gets taken away from russia by the british after the crimean war

Would they really have had the ability to enforce that though? It took the combined forces of the French, British, and Ottomans to force the Russians to basically just give back the territory they'd taken and limit their Black Sea navy, they didn't really lose any territory over the war. To this day the combined populations of Yukon and the Northwest Territories amount to about 100,000, and around the time of the Crimean War there were about 50,000 people living in British Columbia. Considering that the Nome deposits are still making the U.S money to this day, would Russia really give it up?

 

[wietze]

Would they really have had the ability to enforce that though? It took the combined forces of the French, British, and Ottomans to force the Russians to basically just give back the territory they'd taken and limit their Black Sea navy, they didn't really lose any territory over the war. To this day the combined populations of Yukon and the Northwest Territories amount to about 100,000, and around the time of the Crimean War there were about 50,000 people living in British Columbia. Considering that the Nome deposits are still making the U.S money to this day, would Russia really give it up?

it would be a bargaining chip, and with the info of gold, it has become a chip with more value. considering the sheer size of russia (10 timezones, UTC+2 to UTC+12) they would already be thinly spread.
any earlier goldrush would have attracted people from all over, not just russians (who probably would be a minority). and at this time everything from russia has to get there either the very slow route overland ( no transsib express), or the long way round over sea.
the british would more capable of enforcing it than the russians due to naval strength

 

[Chris Triangle]

it would be a bargaining chip, and with the info of gold, it has become a chip with more value. considering the sheer size of russia (10 timezones, UTC+2 to UTC+12) they would already be thinly spread.
any earlier goldrush would have attracted people from all over, not just russians (who probably would be a minority). and at this time everything from russia has to get there either the very slow route overland ( no transsib express), or the long way round over sea.
the british would more capable of enforcing it than the russians due to naval strength

Yes, I think most of the people flooding in would be Anglo Americans, many of which had fresh mining experience from previous gold rushes and would be eager to try to barge in no matter who controls it. I don't think Russia would be able to stop them easily.

 

[thezerech]

I'd say it'd be better to move the discovery up a few decades. Either way, assuming Britain doesn't take control of Alaska I see it going much the same way as the Far East and Siberia. Russians, Belorussians, and Ukrainians are brought in by the pull of gold and by the Russian government to settle the territory. I don't think they'd reach IOTL numbers until the Russian Civil War (refugees fleeing?). Americans and Canadians would probably come in too, though it is questionable in what numbers, though it will certainly be significantly less.

 

[Tomislav Addai]

Till WW1 maybe some 80 000 people live there, mostly Russians, as well as Ukrainians, Belarussians, Germans, Armenians, British etc.
During the Civil War, many royalists flee to Alaska, boosting the population to some 175 000.
Alaska remains part of the western bloc, being also active in the war against Japan. However, Alaskas greatest danger remains Stalin and the USSR. Therefore, it becomes a founding member of the NATO.

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Most likely it gets scooped up by America or Britain sometime in the late 19th century. Unless something dramatic changes on the Russian Pacific coast then Britain or America are both just too close and too powerful in naval terms to be denied some sort of access to it.

 

[Rhomaion1]

Most likely it gets scooped up by America or Britain sometime in the late 19th century. Unless something dramatic changes on the Russian Pacific coast then Britain or America are both just too close and too powerful in naval terms to be denied some sort of access to it.

That's actually part of what I was asking, for a lot of Russia's history the vast majority of the Russian population was located in European Russia, with everything east of the Urals being sparsely populated in comparison. Could the discovery of sizeable gold deposits in Alaska have provided some greater impetus to increase settlement along the Russian Pacific coast, maybe end up with an earlier founding and faster buildup of Vladivostok? This actually might impact the future of Japan in this case since it could turn more of Russia's attention in that direction earlier.

 

[NolanFoster]

If gold is discovered under the Russian Empire, there's still the danger of Texification by anglo settlers making common cause with Ukrainian and Polish minorities.

 

[Avrorrange]

If gold is discovered under the Russian Empire, there's still the danger of Texification by anglo settlers making common cause with Ukrainian and Polish minorities.

I don't see it happening.Russia isn't Mexico.Even after the Russo-Japanese war,people still saw it as the unbeatable steamroller.Even if Murcia or Britain win,the costs would be quite high--at least in their imagination.Britain in particular was quite scared of the notion of Russian troops pouring into India.

 

[Arkenfolm]

I don't see it happening.Russia isn't Mexico.Even after the Russo-Japanese war,people still saw it as the unbeatable steamroller.Even if Murcia or Britain win,the costs would be quite high--at least in their imagination.Britain in particular was quite scared of the notion of Russian troops pouring into India.

On one hand, they have the advantage of being quite isolated, considering the shitty weather of the North Pacific. But on the other hand, it could be difficult to get reinforcements. A lot depends how much Russia strengthened their Pacific Fleet too.

Also, how many Poles and Ukrainians would you foresee emigrating here? Ukrainians I could see, but Poles?

Bordering Canada, I think the British will have an interest in this territory as well. Maybe the United States, since there'll be many American citizens.

Thought--Russo-Japanese War, with the Americans on the Japanese side, and the goal of the Americans being Alaska.

 

[wietze]

Thought--Russo-Japanese War, with the Americans on the Japanese side, and the goal of the Americans being Alaska.

too late, if alaskaya is more valuable than otl then it will be snatched during the crimean war

 

[Arkenfolm]

too late, if alaskaya is more valuable than otl then it will be snatched during the crimean war

True, but if somehow they hold onto Alaska, and never sell it, and we have tensions in the colony involving Anglo-American miners, it could be good for America to seize it with indirect British support. No war in India/Central Asia, just get your ally Japan to start a war and the United States to jump in. If the issue simmers for a while before the alt-Russo-Japanese War, it's understood that Russia is the enemy of both Japan and the United States, helping relations.

 

[Avrorrange]

True, but if somehow they hold onto Alaska, and never sell it, and we have tensions in the colony involving Anglo-American minors, it could be good for America to seize it with indirect British support. No war in India/Central Asia, just get your ally Japan to start a war and the United States to jump in. If the issue simmers for a while before the alt-Russo-Japanese War, it's understood that Russia is the enemy of both Japan and the United States, helping relations.

Prior to the Russo-Japanese War,Russia had the third largest navy on the planet.It's incredibly unlikely that anyone would want to risk war just because of Alaska.At the end of the day,it's just Alaska.It's a profitable place,but not enough to risk war with a great power like Russia.

 

[wietze]

Prior to the Russo-Japanese War,Russia had the third largest navy on the planet.It's incredibly unlikely that anyone would want to risk war just because of Alaska.At the end of the day,it's just Alaska.It's a profitable place,but not enough to risk war with a great power like Russia.

while britain had the largest navy, and was the superpower of the day

 

[Notthedarkweb]

A mandate over Alaska would be very difficult to maintain. I think the Russians had some difficulty controlling the Russian Far East and Siberia, and in general all territories eats of the Ural river, so the Russians would abandon the territory anyway. Now, you might say that all this is false because of the large states that the Empire ruled to the South of the Caucasus, but Alaska is a brutally cold, sparsely populated region, which is bordered by a British territory, who at that point seemed pretty hostile to the idea of Russia trying to project it's power. All in all, after the discovery of gold, either Russia sells it for a more expensive price, or the British would have invaded it.

 

[Avrorrange]

while britain had the largest navy, and was the superpower of the day

And Britain actually fears Russian troops pouring into India from Central Asia.It's not likely to happen in an actual war,but that's what they always feared.

 

[Arkenfolm]

Prior to the Russo-Japanese War,Russia had the third largest navy on the planet.It's incredibly unlikely that anyone would want to risk war just because of Alaska.At the end of the day,it's just Alaska.It's a profitable place,but not enough to risk war with a great power like Russia.

Yeah, but if Japan still goes for the Russo-Japanese War (irrelated to Alaska), why wouldn't America honor their alliance and with British financial aid (for both US and Japan) help make the loss of Russia + plus OTL's Russo-Japanese War result the best result Russia can hope for? I mean, the US could purchase it to begin with, especially since the value's a bit more evident than in Seward's time, but if the British can stoke a war between the US + Japan and Russia, wouldn't that be in their interests? Plus in the US's interests (US gains Alaska) and of course in Japan's interests. Presumably also the US would have some building up in the few years beforehand to counter the obvious weakness of OTL's US military at that time. Or perhaps not.

 

[Rhomaion1]

A mandate over Alaska would be very difficult to maintain. I think the Russians had some difficulty controlling the Russian Far East and Siberia, and in general all territories eats of the Ural river, so the Russians would abandon the territory anyway. Now, you might say that all this is false because of the large states that the Empire ruled to the South of the Caucasus, but Alaska is a brutally cold, sparsely populated region, which is bordered by a British territory, who at that point seemed pretty hostile to the idea of Russia trying to project it's power. All in all, after the discovery of gold, either Russia sells it for a more expensive price, or the British would have invaded it.

While it's true that it's cold and sparsely populated overall, the coastal regions and the panhandle aren't that bad compared to Russia proper. I did a comparison with Nome (the coastal gold rush zone that still has the active gold mining) with Yekaterinaburg (a major west Siberian city with a population of about 1.3 million) and during the winter Nome doesn't really get more than 5 degrees Fahrenheit below Yekaterinaburg in terms of daily mean temperature. Juneau is actually even better than Yekaterinaburg during the winter with the daily mean temperature in deep winter being just below freezing. Of course it starts to diverge for both in spring and summer since Nome and Juneau don't really ever climb out of the 50's that often but considering that the Nome deposits are placer deposits that you can just sift through the sediment to get the gold then not as much work would be needed in setting up mining towns compared to hard rock mining.

On another note, has anybody thought about how the discovery could change priorities regarding far-eastern settlement? There might be some more development along Russia's Pacific coast as a result of this,