If Rudolf of Rheinfelden survives the Battle on the Elster - 14 October 1080

If Rudolf of Rheinfelden survives the Battle on the Elster - 14 October 1080 - and Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor, is killed instead.
Possibly a civil war in the HRE, that lasts longer than it did - for some time German forces are unable to intervene in italian politics.
Robert Guiscard is not called back from the Balkans by Pope Gregory the VII.
Robert Guiscard completes the conquest and Feudalisation of the Balkans - and Constantinople.
Letting it run on. What if the effects of this are that Christian intervention in the Holy land, and against the Seljuk Turks,
is more effective and less degraded in its effectivness by internecine strife.
Roll it on more, the Christian Holy lands are not lost when they were, - or maybe not at all - , and the Teutonic Knights do not leave The Holy Lands when they did. Not moving to transylvania, thence to the Baltic coast.
No Prussia ! - and all the effects this has on the history of Poland, the power balance beteen the Polish monarchy and Aristocracy develop differently. The History of Swedens influence in the region is altered. Does a stronger Poland resist Russia and Austria more effectively. The dynamics of German history are different.
And with no Prussia - how are the Napoleonic wars affected, - if any of this happens at all.
Not to mention the developments that lead to German unification.
 
adrian6035 said:
If Rudolf of Rheinfelden survives the Battle on the Elster - 14 October 1080 - and Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor, is killed instead.
Possibly a civil war in the HRE, that lasts longer than it did - for some time German forces are unable to intervene in italian politics.
Robert Guiscard is not called back from the Balkans by Pope Gregory the VII.
Robert Guiscard completes the conquest and Feudalisation of the Balkans - and Constantinople.
Letting it run on. What if the effects of this are that Christian intervention in the Holy land, and against the Seljuk Turks,
is more effective and less degraded in its effectivness by internecine strife.

Interesting POD, but hold up a moment. Why wouldn't whoever is elected emperor do much the same as OTL Henry IV (meaning Robert is going back anyway - also, Robert is likely to still face Abelard in revolt for the same reasons as OTL, even if the emperor isn't an issue)?

Would Robert necessarily manage to take the Balkans and Constantinople?

Would the Crusades even happen? And if it does, how would there be less strife - the friction with the Byzantines was the least of the problems facing the crusaders in that regard?
 
Thanx
Sorry i'm thinking about !083, Abelard is dead by then, the south Italian nobles are pacified.

My point was that if Henry IV is killed, then maybe the stage is set for a lengthy civil war in the HRE.

Robert doesn't get recalled - at the point at which he's ready to march on Constantinople - as the HRE civil war neutralises German intervention against the Pope.

If Guiscard succeeds in taking Constantinople - which some historians think he had a good chance of doing so - then a Norman dynasty would have been established in Constantinople, at the end of the eleventh century.

Just a thought.

Regards
Adrian
 
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