If Quebec, Nova Scotia, and GB's Caribbean were part of the US how would the states look?

I understand the implausibility of this so let's just say Great Britain manages mishandle and piss off its new world holdings enough that they join the American Revolution and some how they win. How would the states look at the beginning and how would they look in future? How much territory would have to give up and would they split into smaller states to improve their representation? I think Nova Scotia would be what is now modern day NS, and New Brunswick but would Prince Edward Island be merged with NS or would be its own state? I am sorta stumpt when it comes to the Caribbean.
 
The Carribean gets divided into a couple of semi-arbitrary states or else one monolithic one? I doubt they'd all be recognized as individual states due to possibilities of a power imbalance due to that, but on the other hand, I can see some arbitrary division of the region to ensure better representation of its' interests in Congress occurring.
 
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1. Quebec likely WOULDN'T just revert to its 1763 borders but instead likely be its 1791 Lower Canada boundary lines with one exception. Why? This is because 1) the USA wanted natural borders at its start (look at the Rainy River boundary in what is now northeastern Minnesota, or the St. Croix River of eastern Maine, besides the obvious Mississippi River and Great Lakes) and 2) watersheds and rivers will be the most useful boundary markers in the Canadian Shield's frozen and forested wilderness.... and Lower Canada in 1791 stretched north to the Hudson Bay watershed instead of that weird, straight, arbitrary 1763 north marker line. Its western border would still be the Ottawa River (its a great western border when Quebec cedes western claims to the government with the other states) and its southern border as OTL/1783, but its eastern border may revert to the 1763 St. John River in Labrador and the Labrador watershed otherwise per convenient geographic boundaries for the "USA wants natural borders at first" note. Geographically this is still huge in square miles even if it looks far more 'even' compared to the other states than it did in 1774, even if the population huddles around the St. Lawrence River valley.

2. Nova Scotia and PEI (here still St. John Island) remain as in OTL pre-1783 - Nova Scotia holds *New Brunswick and SJI its own colony - simply because if Nova Scotia goes Patriot then there's no division between the American settlers of *New Brunswick that got swamped by migrating Loyalists who then disliked the older, uppity settlers of Nova Scotia Proper - they're ALL Patriot/American here and no Loyalists have moved in! SJI remains separate because if you didn't merge Delaware with Pennsylvania or New England together, then merging SJI into Nova Scotia reeks of hypocrisy and sets a bad example for tiny states' continued existence.

3. Most of the West Indies are way far-off, and the only Patriot-settler-holding colonies were Bermuda and the Bahamas. They're pretty easy to be their own states in spite of their size because, again, they were separate colonies in the first place. Heck, they can help offset the States of *Canada (as local Americans and Qubeckers alike called that province), Nova Scotia, and St. John Island in the Senate and House alike.
 
1. Quebec likely WOULDN'T just revert to its 1763 borders but instead likely be its 1791 Lower Canada boundary lines with one exception. Why? This is because 1) the USA wanted natural borders at its start (look at the Rainy River boundary in what is now northeastern Minnesota, or the St. Croix River of eastern Maine, besides the obvious Mississippi River and Great Lakes) and 2) watersheds and rivers will be the most useful boundary markers in the Canadian Shield's frozen and forested wilderness.... and Lower Canada in 1791 stretched north to the Hudson Bay watershed instead of that weird, straight, arbitrary 1763 north marker line. Its western border would still be the Ottawa River (its a great western border when Quebec cedes western claims to the government with the other states) and its southern border as OTL/1783, but its eastern border may revert to the 1763 St. John River in Labrador and the Labrador watershed otherwise per convenient geographic boundaries for the "USA wants natural borders at first" note. Geographically this is still huge in square miles even if it looks far more 'even' compared to the other states than it did in 1774, even if the population huddles around the St. Lawrence River valley.

2. Nova Scotia and PEI (here still St. John Island) remain as in OTL pre-1783 - Nova Scotia holds *New Brunswick and SJI its own colony - simply because if Nova Scotia goes Patriot then there's no division between the American settlers of *New Brunswick that got swamped by migrating Loyalists who then disliked the older, uppity settlers of Nova Scotia Proper - they're ALL Patriot/American here and no Loyalists have moved in! SJI remains separate because if you didn't merge Delaware with Pennsylvania or New England together, then merging SJI into Nova Scotia reeks of hypocrisy and sets a bad example for tiny states' continued existence.

3. Most of the West Indies are way far-off, and the only Patriot-settler-holding colonies were Bermuda and the Bahamas. They're pretty easy to be their own states in spite of their size because, again, they were separate colonies in the first place. Heck, they can help offset the States of *Canada (as local Americans and Qubeckers alike called that province), Nova Scotia, and St. John Island in the Senate and House alike.

1. so what would be west of the Ottawa River and how would have no Northern border effect the states.

2 okay so there would be another small east

3 well there was patriot sympathies in most of the British colonies because they relied on them for food and this is a timeline where GB is uber unlucky and incompetent.

4 I use Quebec to avoid confusion in this discussion but when I make a time line I will use Canada for the state.

5.So the colonial charters in Caribbean would become states? If so that definitely throws off the Free state slave state balance so Maine would defiantly be broken off from Massachusetts asap, and several southern territories might be delayed state hood and Northern states might not be so anti immigration to try to balance out the slave power.
 

Marc

Donor
The North isn't going to support the admission of British West Indies as either one or more state, until well after the Civil War.
To give you some idea of the problem:

When Britain abolished the institution of slavery in 1834, Jamaica had a population of more than 311,000 slaves and only about 16,700 whites.

I think you all can figure the complications.
And similar ratios exited throughout the Caribbean.
 
The North isn't going to support the admission of British West Indies as either one or more state, until well after the Civil War.
To give you some idea of the problem:

When Britain abolished the institution of slavery in 1834, Jamaica had a population of more than 311,000 slaves and only about 16,700 whites.

I think you all can figure the complications.
And similar ratios exited throughout the Caribbean.
in this timeline they are one the original colonies that join in the revolution.
 

Marc

Donor
in this timeline they are one the original colonies that join in the revolution.

That is very close to ASB unless you markedly change the history of Jamaica going back to first colonization.
Unless you set up some initial conditions, however implausible, there really isn't any way to reasonably conjecture about developments in the "formerly" British West Indies.
Heck, the closest I can come to is imagine Haiti multiplied on a number of islands.
 
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Probably colonial borders, with only Quebec shrunk. So
Quebec (free)
Nova Scotia (free)
St John’s Island (free)
Bahamas (slave)
Bermuda (slave)
Leeward Islands (slave)
Jamaica (slave)
Grenada (slave)

However, the general consensus is that only Quebec, Nova Scotia, maybe SJI (IDK), Bahamas, and Bermuda are possible, with Newfoundland and the Caribbean possessions to loyalist and too far away.
 
All right, how in the world do they survive? And why would they?
And given that huge disparity in numbers - well, think what happened on Haiti a few years later.
the us would have to invest in a larger navy and army which would be possible but I don't think the main threat to Caribbean states come from slave revolts I think the US military and state militias could handle them but it would come from European interest which might lead to a much more aggressive Monroe doctrine of try to the European to get out of new world by buying the colonies, filibustering, and suporting independence movements.
 

Marc

Donor
the us would have to invest in a larger navy and army which would be possible but I don't think the main threat to Caribbean states come from slave revolts I think the US military and state militias could handle them but it would come from European interest which might lead to a much more aggressive Monroe doctrine of try to the European to get out of new world by buying the colonies, filibustering, and suporting independence movements.

Frankly, you're underestimating the degree of real and potential resistance. The Caribbean isn't the American South of the 18th and 19th centuries, not at all. Do you really see some United States (which likely wouldn't be operating under the historical basis it did), keeping armies overseas to suppress slave rebellions? As for militias - in the Caribbean, back then, with what manpower? The non-slave population was minuscule, seriously.
For some better ideas, may I suggest reading: A Short History of the West Indies by J. H. Parry, et al. Your library should have it. A superb introduction into the rich and complex history that you want to alter.

Another thought, have the British disappeared? The Empire and its navy collapsed?
 
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Probably colonial borders, with only Quebec shrunk. So
Quebec (free)
Nova Scotia (free)
St John’s Island (free)
Bahamas (slave)
Bermuda (slave)
Leeward Islands (slave)
Jamaica (slave)
Grenada (slave)

However, the general consensus is that only Quebec, Nova Scotia, maybe SJI (IDK), Bahamas, and Bermuda are possible, with Newfoundland and the Caribbean possessions to loyalist and too far away.
thank you but I said before in this situation GB was super unlucky and incompetent. Now in this US we would have 11 slave states and 10 free states so the balance would be about the same in our timeline but there would defiantly be more incentive to go after more Caribbean expansion in this time line.
 
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