If no British ships, where does IJN turn for battleships?

Early on, the Japanese bought ships directly from British, French, and German yards, and also bought ships that had been ordered by minor powers from US yards.

Shipyards were private businesses and if, for some inexplicable reason, British yards refused to accept orders from Japan, France would probably have been the most likely supplier. During the late 19th Century, France was clearly the second naval power after Britain and had the second most capable ship building industry. As noted, it is unlikely that Japan would want to become dependent on Russia for its major fleet units (Russia itself also being somewhat dependent on foreign construction), and even by the Russo-Japanese war the USA was beginning to be seen as Japan's next most likely strategic threat. I wouldn't see the Japanese turning to German yards for their initial buildup, given the fact that Germany was also just beginning to expand its capabilities and its yards were probably at capacity building ships for Germany.

I can't remember the specifics (and won't google it right now), but I believe a major reason the Japanese eventually settled on Britain was that an armored cruiser they ordered from France was lost (disappeared) in transit. This might have been more important than the switch from French to British naval doctrines.
 
I can't remember the specifics (and won't google it right now), but I believe a major reason the Japanese eventually settled on Britain was that an armored cruiser they ordered from France was lost (disappeared) in transit. This might have been more important than the switch from French to British naval doctrines.

Huh, I'd never heard of that. Any idea what the ship was named?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Possibly, but even Home Waters aren't exactly

Back then, how important would range and crew accomodations been for the Japanese? The shorter-legged Mediterranean or German models may have suited them well as an alternative to British made ships. The British and US ships were built with longer cruising time and distance as a key component

By comparison, I believe the only purpose built US built pre-dreadnought(by Cramp & Sons) was the Retvisan for the Russians.

True, but even home waters aren't exactly compact; the archipelago itself is long, and even operations into the Korean and Chinese sea areas aren't like the Baltic, especially as the Japanese would have to be considering trying to blockade capitals, whether Chinese or Russian.

You're correct on Retvisan but the numbers aren't much different for the French or Germans in terms of new-build pre-dreadnoughts for export: the Russians bought one built in France, the Chinese two built in Germany, and (if you squint hard) the Chileans bought one built in France.

Cruisers were different; many more examples of export cruisers in this era.

Best,
 
Huh, I'd never heard of that. Any idea what the ship was named?

OK, you made me Google it after all. She was the Unebi, a protected cruiser built by Forges et Chantiers de la Gironde. The IJN took delivery at the shipyard in October 1886 and she disappeared in the South China Sea in December 1886.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
The U.S. Built two modern cruisers for the IJN

I'd definitely say a no to this one, not when Japan is on the rise and beginning to dominate the Pacific.

Two modern cruisers were built for the IJN in the U.S. after the SJ War, so it's not unprecedented.

Best,
 

Driftless

Donor
Back then, how important would range and crew accomodations been for the Japanese? The shorter-legged Mediterranean or German models may have suited them well as an alternative to British made ships. The British and US ships were built with longer cruising time and distance as a key component

By comparison, I believe the only purpose built US built pre-dreadnought(by Cramp & Sons) for foreign purchase was the Retvisan for the Russians.

True, but even home waters aren't exactly compact; the archipelago itself is long, and even operations into the Korean and Chinese sea areas aren't like the Baltic, especially as the Japanese would have to be considering trying to blockade capitals, whether Chinese or Russian.

You're correct on Retvisan but the numbers aren't much different for the French or Germans in terms of new-build pre-dreadnoughts for export: the Russians bought one built in France, the Chinese two built in Germany, and (if you squint hard) the Chileans bought one built in France.

Cruisers were different; many more examples of export cruisers in this era.

Best,

That makes sense. At time of authorization, the Japanese need was local, but they would also be thinking beyond that immediate self-defense need. In that light, longer legged ships with commensurate crew quarters would be the requirement.
 
This is a good time to put in a plug for the strategic/tactical simulation "Rule the Waves", which can be found here:

http://nws-online.proboards.com/thread/335/rtw-rule-waves-information-downloads

This is a fascinating "little" but amazingly deep single-player AH game that is a wonderful simulation of the industrial, technological, economic, political, and random events that affect the development of fleets in the period 1900-1925. Nations like Japan with underdeveloped shipbuilding industries must order ships abroad, but always pay attention to diplomatic relations and events or they may see their ships confiscated by the building nations.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Maybe the Japanese would order some Garibaldi class cruisers from Italy?

Well they bought two that were building for Argentina- which the Argentines had bought from Spain

It was really an open bazaar and the only limitation was the buyers reluctance to buy from an enemy-

The British would have built ships for Russia (and did) as well as Japan. Russia didn't like to buy anything other than destroyers and such from the British but it wasn't that the British wouldn't sell them
 
Top