If Napoleon made the UK capitulate?

Somewhereovertherainbow

Lets say sometime during the Napoleonic Wars somehow the French fleet is able to destroy or weaken the Royal Navy enough to invade the UK and he does, with Britain surrendering to the French Empire. Now this question is just about what would the British Isles look like after a Napoleonic victory, not the realisticness of such a scenario.

I think the UK could have possibly become a republic, with the nobility abolished and the Royal family possibly in exile or under house arrest if you can call it that. I do not know what would happen to Scotland since in this unspecified POD it would be 98 to 108 years since the signing of the Act's of Union. I'm presuming that Ireland would become an independent republic and an ally of the French, but my knowledge of how Protestants and Catholics would have reacted to this is very limited. In North America is where I'm most confused, since I do not know if an American invasion of Canada would happen, but if it did then Henry Clay would be all over it.
 

Captain Seafort

Leaving aside the fact that this wasn't going to happen because the Mk1 obnoxious little corporal made the Mk2 look like a naval genius...

Somewhereovertherainbow said:
I think the UK could have possibly become a republic, with the nobility abolished and the Royal family possibly in exile or under house arrest if you can call it that. I do not know what would happen to Scotland since in this unspecified POD it would be 98 to 108 years since the signing of the Act's of Union. I'm presuming that Ireland would become an independent republic and an ally of the French, but my knowledge of how Protestants and Catholics would have reacted to this is very limited. In North America is where I'm most confused, since I do not know if an American invasion of Canada would happen, but if it did then Henry Clay would be all over it.
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Not a chance. I doubt the basic structure of the country would have been changed much at all - there would simply have been yet another of the seemingly inexhaustible supply of Bonapartes installed on the throne.
 
Clandango

Clandango

I do not see a U.S. invasion of Canada. I would say they would be rather more worried about losing their main trading partner. France was.... Yah, they pretty much just stole American ships. Piracy against them was lucrative. Though a good deal of those ships would be from New England who, like in the War of 1812, would not be too interested about invading Canada outside of preventing the French from somehow taking it. The invasion of Canada in that war was such a mess because those states refused to participate and the US army and militias kept out of upstate New York because they thought the populace would be angry since they were not in favor of the war.

Anyways, getting the British to come to the table and let France keep their conquests is one thing. Having Napoleon and the French somehow manage to get an army into England... They would face saboteurs and militias everywhere. They would also find their conquests in Europe unravelling, due to the amount of supplies and soldiers that would be needed for such an undertaking. As for abolishing the monarchy, it would be extremely counterproductive. We will of course need to decide upon what year this is taking place in, though I assume this happens before the invasion of Egypt where Napoleon lost loads of ships and or the movement into Syria were he lost most of his men before abandoning them, heading home where people didn't know he failed, then staged a coup. But yes, get rid of the British monarchy that had recently dropped their claim of being Kings of France and you have... A Parliament made up of people who hate the French from military, ethnic, cultural, linguistic, religious, historical, nationalistic, and political standpoints.

Look to the West has a good example, with the French Revolutionary/Nazi/Darwinist regime invading and making a real botched job of things, getting nothing but hatred from the British.
 
Rheinbund

Rheinbund

Napoleon get some support of Irish men he could play with this la légion Irlandaise was create justly to give impression of an army of liberator and not oppressor in case of invasion. After he could play with minority problem and try to give liberty to Wales and Scotland to try to have their support he could also try to have support of some republican league in England.
 
GauchoBadger

GauchoBadger

Captain Seafort said:
there would simply have been yet another of the seemingly inexhaustible supply of Bonapartes installed on the throne.
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Suddenly i imagine an assembly line of Bonaparte relatives.

Either way, after much brainstorming and thinking, i've come to think that Napoleon's planned invasion of Britain would have been a very difficult job. Impossible it wouldn't be, but it would sure have as much of a chance of succeeding as an OTL Operation Barbarossa without a british surrender.
The french would have to be very lucky for their fleet not to be destroyed by Nelson and the RN overall in a multitude of sea battles. But let's assume that the french navy remains intact and is shipped into the channel for an invasion.
-Sure, the distance is relatively small if you count the Calais-towards-Dover trajectory, but even then the british will be throwing all ships they god damned have to cut that supply line. And they very surely did have a lot of ships and experienced admirals.
-Once Napoleon is on british soil, he may win a couple of battles here and there as the british land army was a bit of a joke compared to his. But he'll face stiff resistance and contempt from anyone who isn't irish or welsh or catholic. Expect guerrillas like the ones Napoleon faced in Spain, yet even more determined.
-Of course, Napoleon's invasion of Britain could trigger a few insurrections and armed uprisings in Ireland or Wales, but Scotland was still pretty loyal to London, which narrows the pool for Napoleon's allies within the islands.
-And, to top the problems all off, there are France's continental enemies. Once the coalition countries (Prussia, Austria, and Russia) realize Napoleon is distracted, they will indeed attack. To counter this, Napoleon would have to leave a portion of his army in the rhine to defend against the incoming waves of coalition soldiers. The Grandee Armée in the rhine would end up facing almost as many problems as the other part of the army struggling in british soil.
Though i'll admit, such a scenario would make a damn good movie.
 

Somewhereovertherainbow

GauchoBadger said:
Suddenly i imagine an assembly line of Bonaparte relatives.

Either way, after much brainstorming and thinking, i've come to think that Napoleon's planned invasion of Britain would have been a very difficult job. Impossible it wouldn't be, but it would sure have as much of a chance of succeeding as an OTL Operation Barbarossa without a british surrender.
The french would have to be very lucky for their fleet not to be destroyed by Nelson and the RN overall in a multitude of sea battles. But let's assume that the french navy remains intact and is shipped into the channel for an invasion.
-Sure, the distance is relatively small if you count the Calais-towards-Dover trajectory, but even then the british will be throwing all ships they god damned have to cut that supply line. And they very surely did have a lot of ships and experienced admirals.
-Once Napoleon is on british soil, he may win a couple of battles here and there as the british land army was a bit of a joke compared to his. But he'll face stiff resistance and contempt from anyone who isn't irish or welsh or catholic. Expect guerrillas like the ones Napoleon faced in Spain, yet even more determined.
-Of course, Napoleon's invasion of Britain could trigger a few insurrections and armed uprisings in Ireland or Wales, but Scotland was still pretty loyal to London, which narrows the pool for Napoleon's allies within the islands.
-And, to top the problems all off, there are France's continental enemies. Once the coalition countries (Prussia, Austria, and Russia) realize Napoleon is distracted, they will indeed attack. To counter this, Napoleon would have to leave a portion of his army in the rhine to defend against the incoming waves of coalition soldiers. The Grandee Armée in the rhine would end up facing almost as many problems as the other part of the army struggling in british soil.
Though i'll admit, such a scenario would make a damn good movie.
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I'm sure in some alternate universe (if they exist) where the French won the Napoleonic Wars there is a movie simply called "Dover" about the invasion. Saving Private Ryan 2.0
 

TRH

Somewhereovertherainbow said:
Why though?
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Because he'd be a winner, not a loser. Realistically, though, William's status has to do with his becoming a part of England's history as anything. Napoleon would remain French, so probably not in the same esteem. Really, the closest comparison might be a Michiel de Ruyter who's too important to be forgotten about.
 

Achaemenid Rome

Somewhereovertherainbow said:
Why though?
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Well because if Napoleon had conquered England he'd be compared with the other guy who conquered England. Long term, Napoleon's conquest would be mildly resented, but after 50-100 years, no one would really care that it had happened. If anything, the English would redirect their anger to the Irish, like usual.
 

Somewhereovertherainbow

Achaemenid Rome said:
Well because if Napoleon had conquered England he'd be compared with the other guy who conquered England. Long term, Napoleon's conquest would be mildly resented, but after 50-100 years, no one would really care that it had happened. If anything, the English would redirect their anger to the Irish, like usual.
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Possible wars against a possibly independent Ireland?
 

Somewhereovertherainbow

TRH said:
Because he'd be a winner, not a loser. Realistically, though, William's status has to do with his becoming a part of England's history as anything. Napoleon would remain French, so probably not in the same esteem. Really, the closest comparison might be a Michiel de Ruyter who's too important to be forgotten about.
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Actually Corisican, not French
 

Achaemenid Rome

Somewhereovertherainbow said:
Possible wars against a possibly independent Ireland?
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Depends on family politics in the Bonaparte family really since England is likely to be made into an ally by placing a Bonaparte on the throne, but that may not last more than a generation.

A war between England and Ireland down the line is possible but not inevitable.

Regardless of what happens though, the death toll for Ireland will still be lower than the Potato Famine, which was absolutely devastating to the country. Independent Ireland would be much more prosperous.
 

Cockroach

Putting aside the rather implausible premise.

Ireland probably does get hived off and gets a Bonaparte

Not sure George III gets the boot, Nappy didn't boot all royals off their thrones when he knocked 'em out of the war (see Prussia and Austria as prime examples). And, of cause, there's also the issue that actual power in Britain rested with parliament, not George the Little Bit Nutty, which raises the possibility we actually see powers returned to the monarch's hand (well, more a pro-French regent's hand... but you get the picture). Expect we see many senior members of the British government imprisoned or exiled and method of election of Parliament heavily overhauled in to a form the French can manipulate (bye bye House of Lords?).
 

funnyhat

I think it's more likely that the UK keeps its government but has to accept a dictated peace, as was the case for Austria, Russia and Prussia.
 
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