If Japan & Germany got defeated between January to December 1944 , how much naval,tank, weapons could the Soviets and Wallies get from them?

[eretzyegern]

Including countries that changed sides like Italy, Romania and Bulgaria. If the main participants (USSR,USA,UK and France) defeat Germany and Japan in any month of 1944 and in the minuscle chance they be willing to share what leftovers are available, what would they have at their disposal ? I am talking about stuff like :

• Navy ships of all kind
• Rifles, pistols and the like of all kind
• Fighting vehicles of all kind
• Planes of all kind

What "loot" could the victorious countries get? How much would the Cold War change?

 

[Garrison]

Including countries that changed sides like Italy, Romania and Bulgaria. If the main participants (USSR,USA,UK and France) defeat Germany and Japan in any month of 1944 and in the minuscle chance they be willing to share what leftovers are available, what would they have at their disposal ? I am talking about stuff like :

• Navy ships of all kind
• Rifles, pistols and the like of all kind
• Fighting vehicles of all kind
• Planes of all kind

What "loot" could the victorious countries get? How much would the Cold War change?

Unless we are talking about the Western Allies entering Germany in 1944 I doubt it changes the Cold War much. The German hardware is by and large mechanically unreliable and while some of the ideas embodied in it were useful the actual hardware itself was of little use.

 

[David Floyd]

What exactly would we even want, outside of taking a look at German rocketry, possibly the MG42 and advanced U-boat designs, and Japanese biological weapons research?

 

[eretzyegern]

Unless we are talking about the Western Allies entering Germany in 1944 I doubt it changes the Cold War much. The German hardware is by and large mechanically unreliable and while some of the ideas embodied in it were useful the actual hardware itself was of little use.

@Garrison what would be of use ?

What exactly would we even want, outside of taking a look at German rocketry, possibly the MG42 and advanced U-boat designs, and Japanese biological weapons research?

@David Floyd I was thinking exactly designs of U-Boats, tanks and more. Same thing for designs of the Japanese Navy.

 

[Garrison]

@Garrison what would be of use ?

Nothing really, except as per OTL the stuff that was useful as technology demonstrators. The Allies had better jet engines, the Panther and the Tiger are overengineered and unreliable. The Type XXI U-Boat has some interesting features but its not operationally useful. The US did produce a version the V-1, the JB 2 Loon, which was more sophisticated and the V-2 was used in early rocket development. The irony is if the war ends in 1944 the V-2 might not enter service and might draw less Allied attention.

 

[Dilvish]

The USN might be interested in the Shinano as an experimental ship. She could be better for experiments with jets and other carrier-related things than removing one of the Essexes from active service. Zuikaku, other operational CVs, and the Akitsuki-class destroyers may prove interesting to the USN and RN, I'm thinking the RN and USN would at least be interested in seeing how the IJN conducted carrier operations.

 

[David Floyd]

@Garrison what would be of use ?

@David Floyd I was thinking exactly designs of U-Boats, tanks and more. Same thing for designs of the Japanese Navy.

Maybe the Type XXI, but I seriously doubt we'd want German tank designs as they were both mechanically unreliable and not survivable for their crews, the exact opposite of our doctrine.

As for the IJN, what design would we remotely care about? Our designs outclassed everything the Japanese had by 1944. And that includes the Yamato.

 

[David Floyd]

All I can see us using Japanese ships for would be target ships for atomic weapons.

 

[jlckansas]

Some of the larger caliber flak guns, including some of the 128 and 150mm that they had working autoloader on would be good. Submarine like the German type XXI and the Japanese I 400 class, we took the I 400's wrung them out after the war then sank them to keep anyone else from getting them. Anti tank weapons from the Panzerfaust, Puppschen, and on up to the 128mm Pak guns and their AT rounds would be good to base some of the post war guns on. JB 2 Loon follow on is an example of something we actually went with and improved upon. Shinano and other Japanese CV and their aircraft.

 

[David Floyd]

Japanese naval aircraft? Erm, which ones?

And why would we want the Shinano when we had Midways in the pipeline?

 

[marathag]

@David Floyd I was thinking exactly designs of U-Boats, tanks and more. Same thing for designs of the Japanese Navy.

U-Boats against the USSR are of limited utility

 

[marathag]

Some of the larger caliber flak guns, including some of the 128 and 150mm that they had working autoloader on would be good

M1 120mm AAA had a 12 rpm rate of fire, plus radar that fed into mechanical fire predictor. It did get out of CONUS into a combat theater during the War

 

[jlckansas]

M1 120mm AAA had a 12 rpm rate of fire, plus radar that fed into mechanical fire predictor. It did get out of CONUS into a combat theater during the War

Yes, but the 150 had a refillable magazine on the mount and was made to be used on the Flak towers or on a mobile RR mount. I also left out the 30mm autocannon and 50mm auto cannon.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

Allies thought they wanted a Type XXI to understand the dangers of high speed submarines. The Royal Navy planned on commissioning a pair and managed to name one as HMS Meteorite but she proved such a nightmare that she was not used much beyond being a testbed for how not to design a fast battery sub. They got more use and info out of their streamlined S boats - viz HMS Scotsman in particular

The only other tech they would want would be Rockets I think and possibly to understand how far or not the Germans had got with nukes.

From the Japanese - nothing. Any shipping captured is fit only for sinkex. Their tanks and artillery are woefully outclassed and their aircraft also, especially due to engines and metallurgy.

 

[Bougnas]

The major changes postwar would not be caused by getting less (advanced) loot. The only country to seriously exploit German technology is France (and even then, only a fraction of what they studied actually went anywhere) and for the most part what they used existed in 1944 already (at worst they might lose the real prototype missiles that led to ENTAC or SS10 but early studies and German engineers should be enough to get there anyway). Japanese stuff was not interesting because it was either dead-ended, not advanced enough or not "big" enough.

The real changes would come from an earlier move to peacetime
development/demobilization. Some late war equipment was seen as flawed or a dead-end and would probably have been cancelled altogether or massively delayed/modified postwar(e.g M26, T-44 might well get the T-54 treatment of being in stasis for several years and being modified into OTL T-54 mod 1949). This would ironically be a boon to France as it wouldn't lag as far behind the others for the time being. No meaningful difference once Cold War rearmament kicks into gear however.

 

[David Floyd]

Allies thought they wanted a Type XXI to understand the dangers of high speed submarines. The Royal Navy planned on commissioning a pair and managed to name one as HMS Meteorite but she proved such a nightmare that she was not used much beyond being a testbed for how not to design a fast battery sub. They got more use and info out of their streamlined S boats - viz HMS Scotsman in particular

The only other tech they would want would be Rockets I think and possibly to understand how far or not the Germans had got with nukes.

From the Japanese - nothing. Any shipping captured is fit only for sinkex. Their tanks and artillery are woefully outclassed and their aircraft also, especially due to engines and metallurgy.

We definitely wanted the biological research from Unit 731, but yeah, other than that you nailed it.

 

[Marisa Kiridifferent]

Probably more German surplus to throw around in post-colonial conflicts? (by the Soviets or colonial powers such as France and Netherlands)

 

[UniversalCommons]

It was German rocket technology which the United States went after as well as aircraft technology, not u-boats, ships or tanks. The battlefield technology was not that great. The rocket technology helped get men to the moon.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Pointless to be so negative, also pointless to be too positive

One thing to note is that anything got from Germany takes minimal allied resources, but without an immediate combat use then it falls by the wayside to allied designs soon enough in most cases

Uboat technology, rocketry, jet porpulsion, missiles, etc all are invaluable, but for the mostpart will be

 

[ric350]

Well the ADEN aircraft cannon worked out pretty well.

ric350