If Henry IX had been born instead of Queen Mary

LadyPoland

Banned
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I'm reading about how Catherine wanted a male heir to secure her status with Henry VIII.

If Mary had been born as Henry9, then Henry8 probably doesn't break
with the Catholic Church, and at best Anne Boleyn is just a mistress right?

Three questions I have for the members here,

Is there a long term Anglo-Spanish alliance?

Does this mean England gains a foothood on France forever?

With a Henry9, then no KingJames from Scotland... and therefore no Britain?
 
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I'm reading about how Catherine wanted a male heir to secure her status with Henry VIII.

If Mary had been born as Henry9, then Henry8 probably doesn't break
with the Catholic Church, and at best Anne Boleyn is just a mistress right?

Three questions I have for the members here,

Is there a long term Anglo-Spanish alliance?

Does this mean England gains a foothood on France forever?

With a Henry9, then no KingJames from Scotland... and therefore no Britain?

If Catherine had a male child, it is very likely that Henry VIII doesn't break with the Pope, true. It still won't change his skirt-chasing reputation, true.

An Anglo-Spanish alliance is viable - Both had outstanding rivalries with France, and Henry VIII did admire Philip the Handsome. Of course, if France is dealt with, then those two will drift away from each other, so it all depends on whether France remains a powerhouse for quite a long time.

Unifying Britain is still likely. Henry VII did marry off his daughter to a Stuart, so the two families are dynastically linked. If the Tudors still die out then the Stuarts have a good claim on the throne.

And with regards to an English foothold on France, they still have the Pale of Calais, though France was fast becoming the prime land power - though it wouldn't be able to curbstomp Spain, at the height of the tercio.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
The future Henry IX was born on 01 Jan 1511 but sadly died on 21st February 1511. You just need to have him live

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I think with a surviving son, Henry will no doubt remain Catholic, but Protestantism may continue to grow within his realm, presenting a situation Mary Stuart was faced with: a Catholic Queen governing over a Protestant populace; the Tudors could still go Protestant down the line. Henry VIII may take steps nevertheless to restrain the church, even with a male heir. He was opulent and practically emptied the coffers that his father had so frugally built up. A huge reason to dissolve the monasteries was not only to break the power of the Catholic Church in England, but to infuse the royal coffers with much needed wealth. Is it possible he might negotiate with the Church in this scenario to dissolve certain monasteries (perhaps those with "lazy" monks ala Joseph II in the Habsburg Empire in the 1780s) to fill royal coffers that have been emptied by the magnificent court that Henry VIII, as well as his foreign adventures.

An Spanish alliance is also likely, at least while Catherine lives. But Henry VIII was not well known for sticking to his foreign policies, and often hopped between a pro-French and pro-Habsburg policy, attempting to play the two against eachother. In this scenario Catherine will certainly still predecease Henry, so if he only has his one son, he will certainly consider remarriage to beget further heirs. If he is back on the marriage market in the 1530s, he might consider one of the French King's daughters, which could be quite interesting. Calais would continue to remain English, but I think in the long term it might fall if France and England end up at war. It was Henry's fiscal policies and bad the economic situations under Edward and Mary that meant that Calais' fortress could not be properly up kept, making it an easy target for the French army.

Scotland would remain independent, as well: but we could easily see a Scottish heiress marry into the Tudors down the line, merging the crowns... or perhaps the Tudors leave an heiress who marries the Scottish king. If Henry has a son, he will not meddle with the succession as he did IOTL, thus the Stewarts will formally remain in line for the crown should the Tudor line go extinct, which is wholly possible (at least genetically, they didn't seem to be the most fertile: certainly an offshoot from the Lancastrians).
 
Most alliances based on a marriage such as Catherine of Aragon and Henry VIII didn't last irrespective of the success of the marriage itself.
The Anglo Spanish Alliance collapsed long before it became apparent that Catherine wouldn't give Henry the son he wanted.
She herself always pushed Henry to a pro-Spanish stance - however he felt betrayed in 1513 by Ferdinand and moved towards France (hence the marriage of Mary Tudor and Louis XII) again in the late 15 teens and early 1520's - the young Princess Mary being first betrothed to Charles V and then to the Dauphin.
A surviving male child to Catherine of Aragon makes very little difference - economically an alliance with the Hapsburgs was valuable (for as long as they held the low countries).
 
Top