If Germany and the Soviet Union go to war first..what does France/Britain do?

But why should France and Britain intervene on the Soviet side in a German-Soviet war? As much as the WAllies dislike Hitler, they are anticommunists to the core, so I don't think they would want to sabotage the destruction of the Soviet Union.
They'd sit back and watch the two bleed each other white while rearming as rapidly as possible to deal with the weakened eventual winner if an excuse could be found.

One thing no one brought up is that the Poles were rabidly anti Soviet and prior to 1939 are likely to join Germany in any war against them, along with the rest of Eastern Europe.
 
They'd sit back and watch the two bleed each other white while rearming as rapidly as possible to deal with the weakened eventual winner if an excuse could be found.

One thing no one brought up is that the Poles were rabidly anti Soviet and prior to 1939 are likely to join Germany in any war against them, along with the rest of Eastern Europe.

Polish governments had tried to work something out with Germany, but German rearmament & nazi expansionist policy made it increasingly clear any alliance in that direction as a pact with the devil. Hitlers rhetoric, writing, and laws made it clear Poland was a target, not a ally.
 
One thing no one brought up is that the Poles were rabidly anti Soviet and prior to 1939 are likely to join Germany in any war against them, along with the rest of Eastern Europe.

Polish governments had tried to work something out with Germany, but German rearmament & nazi expansionist policy made it increasingly clear any alliance in that direction as a pact with the devil.

if something blew up the Baltic the Soviets would be in the same position of Winter War fighting on rather narrow front(s), naval front they likely are at a disadvantage, wold Poland be able to remain out of it?

the Soviets would of course not want to add another foe but if they were stalled fighting in Estonia, they have to cross Polish territory to get to the other states?
 
I don't think Poland could stay out of it for long. One side or the other would have incentives to 'use' Poland.

One advantage of this Baltic scenario is it gives the Red Army a few weeks or months for a more orderly mobilization.
 
A thought: what if M-R somehow got the Soviets to invade Poland first? Then, Hitler isn’t the aggressor anymore, technically. He’s just moving in to protect the ethnic Germans in Poland from Soviet tyranny. Oh, and the Poles in western Poland, them too. Hitler gets to restore Germany’s eastern borders, and has his polish puppet state, and the allies aren’t quite willing to attack him over that. Then, either Germany or Russia backstabs the other.

Granted, this requires Stalin to be dumb enough to take all the heat on behalf of Hitler, so I can’t really justify it. But it would get the desired result.
 
if something blew up the Baltic the Soviets would be in the same position of Winter War fighting on rather narrow front(s), naval front they likely are at a disadvantage, wold Poland be able to remain out of it?

the Soviets would of course not want to add another foe but if they were stalled fighting in Estonia, they have to cross Polish territory to get to the other states?

I don't think Poland could stay out of it for long. One side or the other would have incentives to 'use' Poland.

One advantage of this Baltic scenario is it gives the Red Army a few weeks or months for a more orderly mobilization.

tend to agree with you, that almost any scenario is better for the Soviets than historical, however the so-called Phantom Alliance of Germany-Japan-Poland was a fear of Stalin?

Germany "reaching around" Poland to strike the USSR might have been the only plausible way for the Poles to be forced into partnership?

do not know how to rate Polish military, seems to the layman they would be more effective (in late '30's) than the Balkan minions Germany lined up later? and of course we have no idea if Japan would join in, only that this is the approx. time frame they battled historically.
 
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do not know how to rate Polish military, seems to the layman they would be more effective (in late '30's) than the Balkan minions Germany lined up later? ...

OTL the Polish government miscalculated and eight divisions of reservists were not ordered mobilized until the last minute. These were the least equipped and trained of the Polish army & were unable to properly assemble during the campaign, so not a large effect. In a alternate scenario the Poles might have time for a complete mobilization & eight additional infantry divisions would be stood up and available. Given a bit more time to train and fill out the equipment they'd lend some weight to Polish operations.
 
I dunno, that depends. When Hitler carved up Czechoslovakia, he needed only to dangle a little Tešin to ensure Warsaw's full cooperation - just like promise of Southern Slovakia was enough to bring Hungarians onboard.
Assuming Hitler is willing to promise sizable gains in the East, it all might end quite well for Poland.
For 3 and a half minutes
 
Maybe you have someone other than Hitler at the helm in say 1938? maybe he gets assassinated and Goering takes over, he coaxes Poland into an alliance by dropping some of the harsher elements of anti Polish rhetoric and bumbles into a war with the USSR in 39 or 40?
 
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