If England stayed Catholic what would relations with Irish be like?

So? By the "logic" presented in the thread, simply having a Catholic overlord is enough to flip the religion of a nation.



Your depth of knowledge about Croatian religious history is astounding.

Why then did the Croats not convert to Protestantism after the last Austro-Ottoman war in the late 18th century, and then spent the next century and a half opressed (often violently) by the very Catholic Austria and mostly Catholic Hungary? The Turks weren't an issue anymore, so what gives?

Also, how come the Estonians, Latvians and Finns didn't convert to Catholicism whilst under the domination of the very Protestant Swedes?



Ah, it's almost as if the religion of a nation isn't in fact completely dependant on the denomination of whichever nation is opressing them at the time! Who would have thought...
As I’ve mentioned,the reformation was long over in the 18th century.
 
This is complete nonsense, especially the bolded. The "Celtic Church was separate" is a completely discredited idea that's frankly persisted as an AH-meme. The so-called "Celtic Church" was little more than a different set of rites and practices unique to Gaels, fully in communion with Rome.

Seriously - do we have to have a discussion about persecuted religious minorities being little more than nationalist contrarians?

Furthermore it utterly denies the role Ireland played in spreading Christianity to England and other continental Germanic lands
Even then, "We're both Catholic, just like most of the rest of Europe" is less of a uniter than "We're both Protestant, unlike the filthy Papists on the Continent who want to take us over and convert us to their filthy Papist ways."

Excuse me? Was such language needed to bring your point across? Besides, when you take religion out of the equation, wasn't that what England and later Britain was doing to Ireland? Sure religion might have developed into something to defy the authorities. Heck the Generality Lands remained firmly Catholic under the domination by the Protestant Dutch Republic (having no regional assembly nor representation in the Estates General didn't help either). OTOH why is it hard to believe that people stay Catholic out of their own conviction?
England, certain German states and Scandinavian countries in part became Protestant, because their monarchs wanted to obtain the material possessions of the Catholic Church (lands, monasteries). I agree, that is not the whole picture, but that part shouldn't be ignored either.
As for the uniter part neither Catholic nor Protestant countries were ever hindered to start a conflict with a regional rival, because they had the same religion.

This leads to my conclusion, that whether Ireland would be Protestant or Catholic, if the rest of their treatment is mostly the same, I'm sceptical they will love England/UK more than they did IOTL.

@VVD0D95: shared language, yes today, but Ireland had and has a language of its' own. Europe is filled with regional languages of groups, which all feel a big centralizing power tried to exterminate their language and culture. To some degree, Ireland might even fit in this group too, at least with regard to the mixed relation with the former oppressor.
These things tend to last very long, just look at Belgium, where effectually the tables were turned with Flanders now being de facto dominant over the Francophone part of Belgium. Yet both parts to a degree are still stuck in the old roles. Granted the Flemish elites used to talk French as well, and the Belgian Francophone commoner was just as bad off as his Flemish counterpart, it did instil something extra in the Flemish part, since they weren't only dominated, their culture was also looked down upon. Moreover every side in this example all shares or used to share (when translated to the present) the same religion.
 
It would not make a big difference in the 1500s, but in the 1600s and 1700s, it would.

In that period, Ireland was exclusively ruled by Protestants; Catholics were excluded from all government positions, including the Parliament of Ireland, and from voting. This created a deep division between the Irish people and the British-backed ruling class.

If there is no religious bar, there is no division. The government of Ireland will be much more representative of the people of Ireland.
 
It would not make a big difference in the 1500s, but in the 1600s and 1700s, it would.

In that period, Ireland was exclusively ruled by Protestants; Catholics were excluded from all government positions, including the Parliament of Ireland, and from voting. This created a deep division between the lower classes and the British-backed ruling class.

If there is no religious bar, there is no division. The government of Ireland will be much more representative of the people of Ireland.
Fixed to make what you said more clear since the ruling classes were not exclusively nonIrish nor the lower classes exclusively Irish.
 
???Various sources I have read indicates that less than a quarter of landowners were Irish after the Battle of the Boyne.
Past experience has taught me it's a slippery slope from your phrase to saying none of the ruling class were Irish and so setting off a heated argument about Irish identity, oppression, and the Great Famine, so I was politely warning you.
 
Past experience has taught me it's a slippery slope from your phrase to saying none of the ruling class were Irish and so setting off a heated argument about Irish identity, oppression, and the Great Famine, so I was politely warning you.
I said mostly,I never said none of them were.I think it's accurate to say mostly if less than a quarter of landlords were Irish.
 
Excuse me? Was such language needed to bring your point across?

Yes.

This leads to my conclusion, that whether Ireland would be Protestant or Catholic, if the rest of their treatment is mostly the same, I'm sceptical they will love England/UK more than they did IOTL.

Ireland was pretty anglicised even IOTL, and without any religious differences, I think UK/English attitudes towards them would be much the same as towards the other nations of the UK, i.e., a bunch of people with funny accents and a few interesting customs, but basically the same as everybody else. At worst the Irish would find themselves on the receiving end of patronising condescension, not outright oppression.
 
Yes.



Ireland was pretty anglicised even IOTL, and without any religious differences, I think UK/English attitudes towards them would be much the same as towards the other nations of the UK, i.e., a bunch of people with funny accents and a few interesting customs, but basically the same as everybody else. At worst the Irish would find themselves on the receiving end of patronising condescension, not outright oppression.

The anglicisation happened partly because of the harsh oppression (as Irish Catholics were left in extreme poverty due to the Penal Laws and Irish became stigmatised as a peasant langauge), and stuff like the Highland Clearances shows that even Gaelic Protestants were considered inferior to Anglo-Saxons. The Irish and Gaelic culture were also considered inferior long before the reformation as can be seen by the Statues of Kilkenny in 1366.
 
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