If East Asian countries did not persecute Nestorian Christians

If East Asian countries did not persecute Nestorian Christians in the Middle Ages do you think Asian countries will be better off..
 
Well, yes, because they didn't persecute people for their religion. *Knows nothing about Nestorian Christianity* That's generally a Good Thing.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Well, yes, because they didn't persecute people for their religion. *Knows nothing about Nestorian Christianity* That's generally a Good Thing.

True enough, from an ethical POV, they'd be superior to the West European countries ;)

That said, I have the impression "better off" is based on some sort of ahistorical Europa Uber Alles idea that Europe was always wealthier (which was only true in the absolute in one region which was on par with Asia: Italy; it still had the reputation of "wealthiest region in the world" until the industrial revolution)
 
I don't think persecution of the Nestorian Christians was all that common.

In China, for example, they made relatively few converts among Han Chinese but a whole lot among the minorities (Turks, Mongols, etc), so it was always seen as foreign. It eventually died out, IIRC.

Tamerlane did kill an ungodly number of eastern Christians--that's why they're mostly in northern Iraq now because his horsemen couldn't get into the mountains. But that's not the East Asians' fault.
 
I don't think persecution of the Nestorian Christians was all that common.

In China, for example, they made relatively few converts among Han Chinese but a whole lot among the minorities (Turks, Mongols, etc), so it was always seen as foreign. It eventually died out, IIRC.

Tamerlane did kill an ungodly number of eastern Christians--that's why they're mostly in northern Iraq now because his horsemen couldn't get into the mountains. But that's not the East Asians' fault.

To be fair, while Tamerlane did kill a lot of Eastern Christians (and Orthodox Christians too) he also murdered thousands of Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Ismaili Shia, and Twelver Shia for religious reasons. In addition to the hundreds of thousands he killed for purely political reasons, or personal sadism.

The only widespread persecution I'm aware of was in the 9th century, when the Chinese Emperor Wu Tsung went after 'foreign sects', and persecuted both Buddhists and Nestorians. I didn't know there was such a thing as a Taoist extremist, it seems sort of a contradiction in terms, but there we have it.

The early Ming rulers were fairly xenophobic, and the last dated references to Christians in China date from shortly before they took over, but there are few available details on precisely what happened to the remaining Christians in China at that time.
 
If East Asian countries did not persecute Nestorian Christians in the Middle Ages do you think Asian countries will be better off..

kasumigenx

What countries are you thinking of? I only really know of persecution of Nestorian and other eastern Christians in the ME and Central Asian areas. Chiefly by Muslims like Tamerlane as mentioned but possibly others as well.

Further east, in actual eastern Asia the only persecution of Christians I know about are later, in the early modern period and largely of Catholics and later also Protestants.

Either way generally less religious persecution would be better but it would depend on the circumstances. There can be cases were 'persecution' can be prompted by the behaviour of the group in question and not doing anything about them can cause greater problems. However generally it's a bad idea both morally and for the state. Persecution not only denies it resources by killing/discriminating against or forcing to flee the victims, although with the resources needed to do this but it generally means the society is narrowing it's view as a whole. Hence they tend to be less adaptive to new ideas and able to change to meet new crisis and opportunities.

Steve
 
I don't think the presence of Nestorians would have impacted East Asia much at all. What specifically about them do you think they would have improved them?

East Asia, meaning mainly China, did go through several periods where Nestorians were promoted or punished. It has less to do with them being Christian as simply being of foreign origin. Usually it was during a time where Buddhists or Taoists became dominant at court and wanted to eliminate the other as a rival, and the Nestorians simply got mixed in with the other. However, the Nestorians were never a major faction in East Asia and their impact was limited.

Besides Tamerlane, the arrival of the Seljuks also devastated the Nestorian communities in the Middle East.
 

Don Grey

Banned
I don't think the presence of Nestorians would have impacted East Asia much at all. What specifically about them do you think they would have improved them?

East Asia, meaning mainly China, did go through several periods where Nestorians were promoted or punished. It has less to do with them being Christian as simply being of foreign origin. Usually it was during a time where Buddhists or Taoists became dominant at court and wanted to eliminate the other as a rival, and the Nestorians simply got mixed in with the other. However, the Nestorians were never a major faction in East Asia and their impact was limited.

Besides Tamerlane, the arrival of the Seljuks also devastated the Nestorian communities in the Middle East.

I never new the seljuks slaugthered nestorian christians on mass like tamerlane did.
 
I never new the seljuks slaugthered nestorian christians on mass like tamerlane did.

I've never heard of that before either.

Perhaps BlackFox could cite a source?

I know the Seljuk conquest of Anatolia led to its Islamization, but there weren't any Nestorians living there to my knowledge.
 
I've never heard of that before either.

Perhaps BlackFox could cite a source?

I know the Seljuk conquest of Anatolia led to its Islamization, but there weren't any Nestorians living there to my knowledge.

I'm pretty sure that the Seljuks weren't all Muslim by the time they invaded Anatolia and pretty much conquered it. Granted, they were recent converts to Islam and were a bit more fanatical when it came to the religion. But a third of the Turks I read did convert to Christianity but please correct me.
 
The only East Asian (i.e. east of Tibet) persecution of Christians I'm aware of, besides that earlier Taoist extremist (news to me), is the Japanese crucifixion of Christians. After Japan cut itself off from the world, the Christians, who denies the divinity of the Emperor, were nailed to crosses and then stabbed to death.

Of course, to prevent this, Japan would have to not close itself off from the world, a scenario discussed elsewhere.
 
I think that's a bit unfair.

This is after all the same guy who made a scenario with a plague that for the most part hit the Christian areas of the Philippines more than the Muslim parts.

But I'm sorry for going off topic.

Actually, I should had posted that scenario on the ASB forums, that timeline is canceled already...


Of course, to prevent this, Japan would have to not close itself off from the world, a scenario discussed elsewhere.
I am not talking about the japanese persecution of christians..

I am talking about is what if the Nestorian christians in East Asia were allowed to flourish.

I an just asking this because I am making a timeline where in Nestorian Christians were allowed to flourish.
 
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