If china haden't turned in isolation?

NIK PARMEN

Banned
We know that few decates before Columbus discoved Americas China had a huge war and mechant fleet which ruled the seas. Some claim they discovered the "new world" before Colombus. Unfortunatly they turned into isolation making punishable by death to everyone trying to build bigger ships or to make explorations. But if not?
 
I don't know if you've read Gavin Menzies book, 1421? This discusses the theory that the Early Ming dynasty explored huge tracts of the world, before suddenly turning isolationist. Personally I thought the book was interesting, raising some interesting evidence, although the author stretched that evidence a little too far for my liking.

So assuming China did not become isolationist in the 15th Century, I don't see any reason why they would not get involved with the Colonial Land grab in the New World. Ming dynasty China was one of the big powers in Asia (and indeed the world), possessing far greater resources and man-power than any contemporary European country.

Obviously the Pacific ocean is a bigger ocean to cross than the Atlantic, so this will hamper Chinese colonial efforts, but I don't think a Chinese colony or two on the western coast of North America is implausible. Australia may also be a potential site for Chinese colonisation.

The really interesting question is whether or not a non-isolationist China can resist invasion by the Manchu's, who founded the Qing dynasty. If the Ming dynasty survives beyond the 17th Century thats going to create some interesting butterflies.
 
Even if China merely continued the conduct regular voyages to India, Mid East, East Africa world history could turn out very differently. A rationale for these voyages could be a means of outflanking the Turco-Mongols by forging alliances with the empires to their south-west therefore taking some pressure off the Chinese frontier.

When the Portguese arrived in the Indian Ocean they set up a giant protection racket to control the trade in the area, there being no state strong enough to stop them. If the Chinese were still regular visitors to the area they could stop or drastically limit this Portuguese activity, the caravels would really struggle against the Chinese fleets of huge ships. This could alter trade patterns, boost Venice at the expense of Portugal and push the Europeans away from India and toward America.
 
More curry in Chinese cooking certainly.

My thinking is closer to Riain's. If China maintained its naval dominance in the Indian Ocean the Portuguese empire will suffer a mighty blow. It doesn't mean however that the Portuguese wont get access to the Indian spice trade, but they may have to use Chinese middlemen to get what they want.

I don't see major Chinese colonialism expect in southeast Asia; Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, etc. Trade outposts will probably spring up in India, Ceylon, Madagascar and South Africa.

The New World is not only too far but lack the civilized nations the Emperor wants for his Confucian hierarchical order. There wont be any attempt at a land grab. The fact is China was not that heavily populated and had plenty of contiguous frontiers to settle still. At the very most trade outposts in Central America to barter for gold and silver may be possible.

Of course this might make the Aztecs and Incas harder to conquer, but Europeans would still find no resistance of consequence elsewhere in the Americas.
 
I don't see major Chinese colonialism expect in southeast Asia; Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, etc. Trade outposts will probably spring up in India, Ceylon, Madagascar and South Africa.

Mmm. I don't know. Look at how many Chinese settled in Batavia, the Philippines, or Taiwan in OTL. Sure, parts of China are underpopulated. But the cost of travel and transport of goods means it might be more economic to move to Luzon than Szechuan.
 
Mmm. I don't know. Look at how many Chinese settled in Batavia, the Philippines, or Taiwan in OTL. Sure, parts of China are underpopulated. But the cost of travel and transport of goods means it might be more economic to move to Luzon than Szechuan.
Philippines was starting to islamize during that time and it was on the same situation as three kingdoms korea so if there was no spanish colonization there many languages there will merge and lose individuality they might make the strongest kingdom there which is Ma-I as their puppet like they did to Silla.
 
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Cook

Banned
I don't know if you've read Gavin Menzies book, 1421? This discusses the theory that the Early Ming dynasty explored huge tracts of the world, before suddenly turning isolationist. Personally I thought the book was interesting, raising some interesting evidence, although the author stretched that evidence a little too far for my liking.

Stretched it a bit too far for general acceptance.

Chinese Treasure fleet voyages to South East Asia, into the Indian Ocean and as far as the North East Coast of Africa are well documented and corroborated by records and archaeology in those locations. There isn’t any Chinese record of a Treasure Fleet reaching North America or Australia or rounding Africa.

If the Chinese had continued to be outward looking they’d probably have made contact with the Europeans somewhere along the coast of Africa and would have dominated the Trade routes of Eurasia-Africa region without difficulty.

Wether they would have set up colonies and conquered as opposed to just trading ports is the big question.
 
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