If Chamberlain had ceded Poland to Hitler?

Yeah, that's why they issued an ultimatum and declared war on Germany when it was ignored. Because they didn't care about Poland.
If they cared about Poland they'd have done something to protect Poland. Was the BEF sent to Poland? Did Britain protest when the USSR invaded Poland? Did Britain demand as a condition of assistance or at Yalta that Poland be restored after the war? Did Britain shelter the Polish government in exile? No, no... Britain didn't give a fig for Poland beyond serving as a convenient line in the sand they'd hoped Hitler would have the sense not to cross. Now, imagine after Munich in 1938, Hitler's reaction had a combined British-French battlefleet arrived at Poland to with a hundred thousand or more troops, tanks, aircraft, etc. Of course the British and French would be insane to do so, since if the Germans (and Russians) do attack, there is no Dunkirk to run to. Which is exactly why Britain didn't help Poland, because it wasn't worth the risk.

Poland's biggest mistake was assuming the British and French security guarantees meant anything. Poland should have allied itself with Germany or Russia. History suggests the latter is the better of two bad choices. Instead they chose to believe Britain and France, and lived under German or Soviet occupation for the next fifty years, from 1939 to 1989.
 
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CaliGuy

Banned
The public was just unwilling to accept any more expansion of Germany without a fight, Chamberlain didn't want to fight, the public and his party did.
Yeah, I also get the impression that Chamberlain was a reluctant warrior in 1939-1940 who only fought because diplomacy with Hitler ultimately failed in spite of his extremely massive efforts.
 

Deleted member 1487

Yeah, I also get the impression that Chamberlain was a reluctant warrior in 1939-1940 who only fought because diplomacy with Hitler ultimately failed in spite of his extremely massive efforts.
According to Richard Overy's "Goering" Chamberlain was trying to negotiate via Goering to effectively give Germany backdoor control over Poland to avoid war (getting Poland to give up Danzig, which Germany could leverage to control the Polish economy), but Hitler was obsessed with just taking it and thought Chamberlain wouldn't do anything if he did so subterfuge wasn't necessary.

Even if Poland has already fallen to the Nazis by that point in time?
I think so.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
If Neville Chamberlain had not declared war on Hitler because of the Invasion of Poland,this could change something?
In the unlikely event that Chamberlain's political career survives this, Hitler will probably invade the Soviet Union in 1940 in this TL. In turn, this will be the final straw for Britain and France, who will proceed to impose a blockade on Nazi Germany as well as to declare war on it. With most German troops busy in the East, Hitler doesn't have enough troops to successfully implement the Manstein Plan; then, once the Soviet Union survives the initial Nazi punch/invasion, it joins forces with Britain and France (who have already entered this war by that point in time) to push Nazi Germany back. Eventually the noose on Nazi Germany tightens so much that it is either destroyed or is overthrown from within--with an unconditional surrender of Germany to Britain, France, and the Soviet Union to follow in any case.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
According to Richard Overy's "Goering" Chamberlain was trying to negotiate via Goering to effectively give Germany backdoor control over Poland to avoid war (getting Poland to give up Danzig, which Germany could leverage to control the Polish economy), but Hitler was obsessed with just taking it and thought Chamberlain wouldn't do anything if he did so subterfuge wasn't necessary.
Wasn't Poland less dependent on Danzig in 1939 than it was back in 1921 due to the existence of Gdynia, though?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, though, even if Nazi Germany actually acquires Danzig, Hitler would be unable to get Lebensraum in the East unless he actually has Poland as an ally (else, he would need to invade the Baltic states, and the Soviet Union would probably be well-prepared for a Nazi German invasion which doesn't go through either Ukraine or Belarus); in turn, this would mean that Hitler would still need to invade Poland if he would want to acquire his desired Lebensraum in the East. :(
 
Yeah, I also get the impression that Chamberlain was a reluctant warrior in 1939-1940 who only fought because diplomacy with Hitler ultimately failed in spite of his extremely massive efforts.

He was reluctant because he knew that Britain and France were not ready for war in 1938 and had gained another years grace - time to stand up their army's

The man oversaw Britains gearing up for war - something that WSC wrote out of History (as well as his own part in having helped to disarm it)

One other thing - a British Prime Minister is not a dictator - most of the time - and must bow to his electorate's wishes and party etc as well as the Parliament as a whole
 

Deleted member 1487

Wasn't Poland less dependent on Danzig in 1939 than it was back in 1921 due to the existence of Gdynia, though?
Somewhat, but Danzig sat on the mouth of the Vistula, which led directly to the Polish capital and was their primary economic highway, Gdynia (sp?) was only able to replace part of Danzig and wouldn't have been able to handle the burden of the entire national export economy.
 
Nothing much whould change in the long term, since Hitler whould still want more territory in the East, waether that whould be more of Poland and the Baltic Nations or ultimately Russia itself. Sooner or later even Chamberlain whould have been forced to declare war on germany even if he could have nagitated some kind of deal over Poland before!
 

Towelie

Banned
Well Pat Buchanan and the rest of idiot fringe peacenik America seem to think that he should have.

So what will likely happen is Hitler will have more demands and they will escalate until war actually does break out. He will demand Danzig, and then Upper Silesia, and then maybe after that, Riga and other areas of the Baltics that once had a lot of Germans (he already took Memel at this point), or maybe just split Poland with USSR anyways. War with the west was a distraction for his real objective.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Somewhat, but Danzig sat on the mouth of the Volga, which led directly to the Polish capital and was their primary economic highway,

You mean Vistula; the Volga is in Russia. :)

Gdynia (sp?) was only able to replace part of Danzig and wouldn't have been able to handle the burden of the entire national export economy.

OK; understood.

However, what about giving Danzig to Germany but giving Poland special economic rights there?
 

Deleted member 1487

You mean Vistula; the Volga is in Russia. :)
You got it.

OK; understood.

However, what about giving Danzig to Germany but giving Poland special economic rights there?
That was the plan in the deal, but you think the Nazis would honor that?

Well Pat Buchanan and the rest of idiot fringe peacenik America seem to think that he should have.
They aren't peaceniks, they are isolationists; they have no problem fighting over specific American interests, they just don't want to fight Facists in their backyard for issues that they consider not American. Also I frankly think they are Fascist-favorable and want them to fight the Communists so America can stand back and profit off of war trade.

So what will likely happen is Hitler will have more demands and they will escalate until war actually does break out. He will demand Danzig, and then Upper Silesia, and then maybe after that, Riga and other areas of the Baltics that once had a lot of Germans (he already took Memel at this point), or maybe just split Poland with USSR anyways. War with the west was a distraction for his real objective.
From what I gather the plan was to leverage Polish trade via Danzig to economically subordinate them or use the resulting unrest from the economic downturn to overthrow the Polish government or use the instability to puppetize them like Czechoslovakia.
 
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