If Britain fell in 1940 where does that leave Canada and Australia?

How many subs is Germany going to be able to deploy against Canada and Australia?

Very few German submarines ranged as far as Australia (and most of those were doing missions that involved going to Japan), but German submarines operated off the North American east coast quite regularly up through to 1943.

Why would they? Those ships would be needed to import food stuffs from the US to a hungry Europe.

Had the Nazis put any stock with that sort of economic logic, they wouldn't have invaded the USSR or started the war in the first place. The Nazis weren't exactly the biggest fans of the international trade system to begin with... they had a extremely crude economic philosophy based around control, not trade. In a situation where Hitler is willing to make a big enough hay over Canada and other British dominions not submitting to them that they'll start shooting, trade with Canada and/or the US is gonna be pretty far down the list of things on their mind.
 
Last edited:

BooNZ

Banned
The Nazis weren't exactly the biggest fans of the international trade system to begin with... they had a extremely crude economic philosophy based around control, not trade. In a situation where Hitler is willing to make a big enough hay over Canada and other British dominions not submitting to them that they'll start shooting, trade with Canada and/or the US is gonna be pretty far down the list of things on their mind.
The biggest problem the Nazis had with international trade was a shortage of foreign exchange. There may have been a preference for control, but in the example of the Balkans, such control did not necessarily extend to military occupation. Keeping the people fed in both home and occupied territories is always a priority and occupied Europe faced an absolute deficit in terms of calories. Transatlantic trade provides the Nazi occupation of Europe with potential carrots and sticks.

There is no military or diplomatic rationale for the Nazis to harass neutral shipping - it would be biting the hand that feeds.
 

Pangur

Donor
If Britain falls in 1940 German Wehrmacht troops will manage to easily take sydney and ottowa in 1941. Adolf will then have to decide whether to invade American in a 6 week campaign to conquer usa or the soviet union with the goal of seizing vladiovostok before winter.

How the heck are they going to cross the Atlantic let alone get to Aussie?

If the UK falls, then Canada and Australia will fall into some NATO like arrangement with the USA with coordinate military planning.

Dont know about NATO however they certainly get closer to the US

Further, if Britain and the commonwealth are no longer in the war, there is not a lot in the US can realistically do to Germany.

If the UK falls that does not necessarily mean that they and the Commonwealth are no longer in the war.
 

BooNZ

Banned
If the UK falls that does not necessarily mean that they and the Commonwealth are no longer in the war.
Sorry, if Britain has taken a knee, what possible motivation does Canada or Australia have to continue hostilities? Further, what level of power projection can those esteemed nations muster in 1940?
 

Pangur

Donor
Sorry, if Britain has taken a knee, what possible motivation does Canada or Australia have to continue hostilities? Further, what level of power projection can those esteemed nations muster in 1940?
They have the advantages of distance from Germany, lots of natural resources, the support of the US and the entire remaining British empire.
 

BooNZ

Banned
They have the advantages of distance from Germany, lots of natural resources, the support of the US and the entire remaining British empire.
Why and in what way would the US be supporting members of the Commonwealth circa 1940? How do you envisage the commonwealth would pursue such a war over such a vast distance?
 
They have the advantages of distance from Germany, lots of natural resources, the support of the US and the entire remaining British empire.
I don't imagine that they have enough people to use those resources though. And I imagine Australia would be much more concerned about Japan then about Germany.
 

Pangur

Donor
I don't imagine that they have enough people to use those resources though. And I imagine Australia would be much more concerned about Japan then about Germany.
Japan would certainly be front and centre for Aussie as a concern. Just when the hypothetical fall of the UK would matter a lot on this topic, was it before or after the Aussie troops went to the ME?
 
Japan would certainly be front and centre for Aussie as a concern. Just when the hypothetical fall of the UK would matter a lot on this topic, was it before or after the Aussie troops went to the ME?
I presume after, since Australia sent troops in 1940.
 
Would Canada and Australia try to pressure the US to join the war to launch a "rescue" of the UK?

I can't imagine those nations would just sit back and not attempt a response due to the ties that caused them to enter the war in the first place.

Also FDR was very sympathetic to the British cause.
 
In any case Germany isn't in Egypt in late 1940, so the troops might stay with resident British forces and defend the Canal zone or they might be bought home.
 
The biggest problem the Nazis had with international trade was a shortage of foreign exchange. There may have been a preference for control, but in the example of the Balkans, such control did not necessarily extend to military occupation. Keeping the people fed in both home and occupied territories is always a priority and occupied Europe faced an absolute deficit in terms of calories. Transatlantic trade provides the Nazi occupation of Europe with potential carrots and sticks.

The biggest problem the Nazis had with international trade was they believed it to be dominated by the capitalist arm of the Jewish conspiracy seeking, therefore relying on it on more then a ad-hoc basis is fundamentally a Bad Thing for the Aryan Race. Foreign exchange was a practical block on trade (and one that will remain so long as the Germans are going full tilt on the military mobilization, which given the at minimum Cold War the Germans will be in with the US and USSR is quite likely) but the Nazis had a very ideological antipathy towards it as well. That was the entire rationale for conquering Russia up to the Urals: so Germany could be a pretty little autarky and wouldn't have to be reliant on international trade or foreign imports at all, setting it up for the final war against the Judeo-Capitalist homeland of the United States (something which the British American territories would be ideal as a staging base for).

There is no military or diplomatic rationale for the Nazis to harass neutral shipping - it would be biting the hand that feeds.

This was the same story as with the USSR, for which the military and diplomatic rationale was awful while the Germans were engaging in extremely favorable trade with them that was basically feeding the whole of Europe, yet the Nazis bit that hand anyway. Plus, Canada and the other western hemisphere aren't neutral in this situation. As far as the Nazis are concerned, it's rogue British territory that is refusing to obey the surrender terms.
 
Last edited:
How the heck are they going to cross the Atlantic let alone get to Aussie?
Probably using the same fleet they used to invade Britain.

Yes, I know they didn't have one in OTL, but if Britain fell, they must have had one here.
 
A Scots Highland sergeant watched lines of French troops surrendering in 1940 and remarked, 'If the English surrender too, it's going to be a bloody long war...'
 
Top