If Badoglio had had an atom of firmness...

MacCaulay

Banned
I know this doesn't add anything to the conversation...but Maverick: I give you props for the name check of that AWESOME alternate history story.
 

maverick

Banned
Thanks for the support, guys...

So, any more thoughts? do the allies get to the Po by June of 1944? how does that affect the western and eastern fronts?
 
Even if the Italian divisions are informed and prepared, it will not make that much of a difference. It was a formidable force on paper, 55 divisions, but in reality, it was more of a militia.

The Italians had lost their best men in Libya, Tunisia and at Stalingrad and then again in Sicily. What remained in Italy was mostly coastal divisions, which were more like weak regimental combat teams (4-6 infantry battalions with little heavy weapons, 1-2 light artillery battalions) without operational or strategical mobility, and often even no tactical mobility either. They consisted of men of the older classes, often with little modern training, inexperienced and badly trained officers and suffered from a severa lack of automatic weapons, AT weapons and AA. But their morale was the worst part - they knew Italy had lost, and their bad equipment did nothing to help morale either.

The forces that were not of this type was either small elite units with little ability for large-scale field combat or cadres under training (the Italians were raising armoured and motorised formations again) with little of their on paper equipment yet delivered.
 
The Italians had lost their best men in Libya, Tunisia and at Stalingrad and then again in Sicily. What remained in Italy was mostly coastal divisions, which were more like weak regimental combat teams (4-6 infantry battalions with little heavy weapons, 1-2 light artillery battalions) without operational or strategical mobility, and often even no tactical mobility either. They consisted of men of the older classes, often with little modern training, inexperienced and badly trained officers and suffered from a severa lack of automatic weapons, AT weapons and AA. But their morale was the worst part - they knew Italy had lost, and their bad equipment did nothing to help morale either.
I agree. The destruction of the 8th Army, Mussolini's cherished, most touted/flaunted and arguably best Italian military unit in terms of training and experience - which is also why he sent them to the Eastern Front, to show his complete support for Hitler- in Stalingrad was utterly devastating for the Italians. Mussolini certainly was not thrilled.
 

Art

Monthly Donor
The Italian Army in Italy is in a bad position, yes but they're not DEAD. In OTL, the Germans are able to round up most of the Italian army that's left, without much fighting at all. You might say they'll send in armored divisions to make an end of it. If nothing else, the forwarned Italian army will go guerilla, or give away most of its equipment to the various partisan groups. Yugoslavia in Italy, or the guerilleros of Spain, anyone?
 
The most interesting possibility is the Italians blowing up their rail network making German logistics to the south very very difficult.
 
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