If Africa was never colonized

I apologies if there is already a thread but I couldnt find one... anyways.

This subject may be interesting so what if Africa and you can include Asia aswell was never colonized, what would the outcome be? Would we have lesser problems today in Africa or would they be in even more trouble?
We all know that many Africans blame the white man for destroying the continent by intervening and colonizing it.
So if this didnt happen would Africa really prosper and would it take long for them to do this?

Note: The one condition I have is that they will never be colonized by the Europeans but the Europeans ofcourse had large influences on the continent.
 
Well, that depends on your definition of the colonists. Do the Ottomans count? I would generally say they do, so in that case, North Africa would remain the same, but without French or Spanish invasion, it would be a bit more developed. I do not know much about sub-Saharan African history or technology prior to colonization, so I don't know how they would turn out today.
 
To be honest, you can't never have any of Europe colonize any of Africa, the Romans afterall controlled a significant chunk of North Africa.
The further you go into the furture (from Rome on I mean) the less likely it becomes for Europe not to.

You could of course prevent the full scale absorption of the continent by Europe that resulted from the Scramble, but their was a reason Europe
originally colonized Africa; to ensure trade with Asia.
 
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Arabs colonized Africa too. Is the proposal to never have any non-indigenous culture take root on the continent?
 
To get the OTL European powers to not seek fortune in Africa is pure ASB. Why wouldn't they go there with all the (real or imagined) riches waiting for them.

What's the definition of no colonialism in Africa. No trading with African powers during the 1400-1800 era, or no Imperialism in the 1800s?
 

Rosenheim

Donor
What was the international reaction to France's first invasion of Algeria? If they can be warned off, it might set the precedent of having "protectorates" but not allowing full colonies in Africa...

Of course, that still leaves both the Portuguese colonies in Africa at the time as well as the Cape Colony owned by the British. It also doesn't really take care of the later trend for "seeking glory" through imperialism, so it really would depend on how far the butterflies fly.
 
What was the international reaction to France's first invasion of Algeria? If they can be warned off, it might set the precedent of having "protectorates" but not allowing full colonies in Africa...

I think it would'nt be to far off the mark to say their was none, partly because their was no real international community and partly because the rest of Europe really did'nt give a damn about it, especially as it could (I have no idea if it was and if so to who) be seen as Algeria being the initial agressor.

That and their was already a history of the area being owned/controlled by European powers, notably the Spanish who controlled parts of Algeria from the 1500's to 1700's.
 

Rosenheim

Donor
Well by international reaction, I mostly meant the British telling the French to fuck off, but I understand what you mean.
 
Well by international reaction, I mostly meant the British telling the French to fuck off, but I understand what you mean.

Yeah, the British I did'nt really care at the time, they (and the Germans) only started caring when France went after Tunisia and started worrying about the entirety of North Africa being French.
 
I apologies if there is already a thread but I couldnt find one... anyways.

This subject may be interesting so what if Africa and you can include Asia aswell was never colonized, what would the outcome be? Would we have lesser problems today in Africa or would they be in even more trouble?
We all know that many Africans blame the white man for destroying the continent by intervening and colonizing it.
So if this didnt happen would Africa really prosper and would it take long for them to do this?

Note: The one condition I have is that they will never be colonized by the Europeans but the Europeans ofcourse had large influences on the continent.

Western Africa places like Mali etc would eventually learn gunsmithing and be drawn out into Feudal wars the national lines would look nothing like they do today. There also would be a lot more people, a lot more people. They would have their own slave system that might continue on today.
If a strong empire building king would arise we could see an empire a big as Rome, to include everything from OTL's Mali to Nigeria, with influences and possible colonies or trading posts all up and down the Atlantic coast.
In the Americas without a massive slave labor force we would have a caste system like in Europe, maybe some natives would be incorporated and survive that way. Very likely there would be much less industry in the Americas and there would be a reliance on Europe for manufactured goods.
Without European presence I could see Japan industrializing and colonizing China for a cheap labor force. They would build a Pacific Empire ranging from the Philippines around the Rim and down to Baja to include most of Eastern China. They would be trading Partners with the Spanish in Mexico and the French in Louisiana.
The English and the Dutch would be at odds with each other in the East Coast area of OTL's US and the Caribbean. Although they would ally themselves with each other against any Spanish or French incursions.
I could see Irish and native alliances.
 
I apologies if there is already a thread but I couldnt find one... anyways.

This subject may be interesting so what if Africa and you can include Asia aswell was never colonized, what would the outcome be? Would we have lesser problems today in Africa or would they be in even more trouble?
We all know that many Africans blame the white man for destroying the continent by intervening and colonizing it.
So if this didnt happen would Africa really prosper and would it take long for them to do this?

Note: The one condition I have is that they will never be colonized by the Europeans but the Europeans ofcourse had large influences on the continent.

Weapons, some technology and trade would find their way to Africa. And with that native Empires forged by conquest will rise (and sometimes fall just as fast). First along the coast and at the borders of the Arab world.

More old kingdoms (like Ethopia) will survive and modernise somewhat, while some of the more unhospitable areas will remain totally white areas on the map (although they might bbe theoretically claimed).

Wars among the tribes might be as bloody as the european conquests (or even bloodier in some areas) but the resulting borders should be less akward.

It is hard to say, if Africa would be better or worse today, but it would be more African.
 
I am interpreting this to mean that there is no Scramble for Africa. But France has Algeria, and British have a protectorate in Egypt after Ismail Pasha's bankruptcy. The Capetown colony also exists, and the Portuguese have coastal settlements in Angola and Mozambique. There is a scattering of forts and such in West Africa and elsewhere. Let's say that despite the potential resources, Africa is seen as too poor with too many health problems to make it worth their while. European involvement in Africa remains limited to local entrepot trading and various scientific expeditions.

So what does the rest of sub-Saharan Africa do on its own? Not a whole lot. The indigenous empires will continue to exist, waging war, capturing slaves for their internal use, expanding their domains, etc. Slowly, such states will be incorporated into the international diplomatic system, but likely only after they achieve a certain level of institutional development, power, and adhere to certain European standards (like abolition of slavery).

Political development will be slow in coming, but may happen as Africans study in Europe and learn about European politics. But liberal reforms will be almost impossible at this stage. We won't see any significant changes for decades.

Their economies will remain very undeveloped. No railroads will be built. Resource extraction without European capital and technology will remain limited. While there are other commodities (certain agricultural products, tropical woods, ivory) that can be exchanged, they will become less and less important to the world economy. In most ways, Africa will be economically worse off although any surplus will be consumed by African elites instead of Europeans.

Of course, European businessmen may still try to work with the local governments to scout for resources, build plantations, and perhaps even introduce some very local infrastructure to allow transportation of mined or plantation goods. Such investments will be limited, as the goods must be of very high value and quickly extracted to justify such a high risk of investment. The local kings might just decided to seize control of it. But there are several places where that might be worthwhile, especially in South Africa.

Eventually, as African elites interact more with Europe and other parts of the world through trade and intercultural exchange, they will see how undeveloped they are. Their efforts to "modernize" their kingdoms and empires will meet with varying success as indigenous cultural elites will both see opportunities and threats to their own power.

Most African lands continue to be affected by changing weather conditions (drought in the Sahel for example), and population shortages due to disease and habitat. Despite the incorporation of new technology and goods from trade, they are unlikely to ever achieve enough capital surplus for any kind of capital development which is necessary for non-Malthusian growth.

The most we might see is several states similar to Ethiopia in the 20th Century in terms of its political and economic development. There might be such states based around the Niger River, Lake Chad, Swahili East Coast, the Congo, and Natal. These states will be increasingly prone to internal disruption and revolution as local elites see traditional politics as a reason for why they are so undeveloped compared to Europe and the rest of the world. Local revolutions and coups might happen in the 1970s especially under local conditions of stress caused by environmental factors like drought.

Other than different borders and more pronounced cultural distinctness, I don't see too many differences between such an Africa and they one we have. It's just that with local socities being kept intact that there would be a significant local elite. That may provide more stability, but it would also retard innovation.
 
One of the things I am seeing in this thread is a sort of ASB style of insertion of a still primitive Africa into a modern world. That somehow the rest of the world would go on like it has without African influence, or that Sub Saharan Africa had no influence.

  • We loose foods like semolina and lentil soup.
  • We loose resources like the slaves, diamonds, gold, uranium, furs, ivory etc.
  • We loose ports to the East.
Once those things are butterflied away you now have no reason for Europe to abolish the slave trade. Irish and poor Scots and Welsh will still be indentured. When America opens up, there will be a lot of Europeans saving up their last pennies to sail away to a new future. Some will make it, some will perish, most will end up being a lower caste worker for big plantations. No way around it.
Either that or most of America will end up similar to Louisiana under the French. This would mean Europe does not get rich off more American resources once Peru and Mexico are gone there just wont be the labor force to use the farm land. We can now butterfly away smoking, and many American fruits and vegetables.
Either way, butterfly away the United States. If any independence happens it would be one East Coast Canadian style country with borders on a French protectorate of well armed indigenous tribes.

Can't get around those butterflies, unlike professor Peabody and the Should Have Been Machine they are everywhere.
 
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What if the Axumites successfully sieged Mecca, thus preventing the Islamic conquests which would in turn prevent the Sassanids from falling and thus prevent the East African slave trade, being that the Sassanids banned slavery?

Another related manner of leaving at least part of Africa not colonized are: A southward Axumite expansion into the East African savanna before the Islamic conquests (if they are to happen); they would not find much to resist them there and could continue to develop and trade with the Indosphere.

What about some Guinean forest state, such as Nri or Ife, developing into an empire that unifies and dominates Guinea and maybe part of the Central African rainforest? Given the time frame and the fact that the Muslims could not make much of an inroad anywhere south of Guinea in actual history, this state could remain independent and quite possibly be a world power in our time.
 
look at how much the Bantu peoples took over. if that's not colonization...

Bantus are indigenous to the continent though. Bantus became Bantus while in Africa. Arabs became Arabs in Asia before spreading with Islam to North Africa.
 
If the Indian experience is any judge, infrastructure and methods would be far less western. On the subcontinent, the states that had Mahrajis in power are still very noticably backward, or so the Indians themselves have been heard to say. I have heard and seen the same in Nepal, which was never actually colonialized, but was a loose protectorate only. The British in India had far more power than in Nepal. Africa would have several magnitudes more. What you see of bureacratic efficiency in Ethiopia is a good judge, as it was never colonialized save a very short period by the Italians. But even here, it was already an ancient state largely over joyed to have allies against the Islamic forces. English and other groups had influence since the 1800's. Many regions would be far more reticient, if not the hermit kingdom Korea type.
 

Keenir

Banned
Bantus are indigenous to the continent though. Bantus became Bantus while in Africa.

and then they went colonizing.


(though if you're going to go with the "indigenous" line, you may want to try stopping the Malagasy from ever landing on Madagascar - they're Indonesians)

Arabs became Arabs in Asia before spreading with Islam to North Africa.

Arabia is tectonically part of Africa.
 
and then they went colonizing.


(though if you're going to go with the "indigenous" line, you may want to try stopping the Malagasy from ever landing on Madagascar - they're Indonesians)
Was the island known to be inhabited prior to the Malagasy arrival? Regardless, the Malagasy culture was not formed until after those settlers arrived on that island.


Arabia is tectonically part of Africa.

Now you're splitting hairs. Further, if tectonics are your basis of reasoning, then surely Madagascar is not part of Africa;)
 
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