Ideas for postwar Russia TTL?

Redcoat

Banned
Thinking of a TL where Russia goes insane TTL and has an equivalent of a fascist regime take over, which is defeated by an alt-Allied powers. Russia is being punished in a similar way as Germany OTL, but I'm not sure how to carve up TTL Russia. What I know is that Finland gets all of Karelia and the Kola peninsula and probably even St. Petersburg, not sure about the rest.

So what would you think this alt-Russia might look like postwar?
 

Redcoat

Banned
Your scenario is far too vague to draw any meaningful conclusion. More details are necessary.
Yeah I was in a rush at the time. Russia loses most of the Non-Russian population after a weaker Red victory than OTL. The communists themselves also fall from left wing movements, and in the chaos some former whites return to Russia and take control, consolidating power first. It is a Nazi Germany equivalent, invading Western Europe and Constantinople as it believes in Russian domination of Europe. It is brought down by a coalition of nations similar to the Allies. Now it is the end of the war and Russia is seeing itself losing a lot of territory from the nations neighboring it. Finland gains the rest of the Kola Peninsula and St. Petersburg possibly as well. I think the northern Caucausus break away. What I was wondering what the Russian version of Oder Neisse might be.
 
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BigBlueBox

Banned
Yeah I was in a rush at the time. Russia loses most of the Non-Russian population after a weaker Red victory than OTL. The communists themselves also fall from left wing movements, and in the chaos some former whites return to Russia and take control, consolidating power first. It is a Nazi Germany equivalent, invading Western Europe and Constantinople as it believes in Russian domination of Europe. It is brought down by a coalition of nations similar to the Allies. Now it is the end of the war and Russia is seeing itself losing a lot of territory from the nations neighboring it. Finland gains the rest of the Kola Peninsula and St. Petersburg possibly as well. I think the northern Caucausus break away. What I was wondering what the Russian version of Oder Neisse might be.
Ukraine and Belarus would probably be expanded eastwards. Belarus can get Smolensk, Ukraine can get the Kuban.
 
My theory would be you have Imperial Russia lose to a not defeated Imperial Germany but avoid the Bolshevik take over, it likely has lost Ukraine in addition to Finland, the Baltics and Congress Poland. Some weak analogue to the Weimar Republic is in power but is taken over by revanchist parallel "fascists" who seek to retake the lost territories by war. A plausible scenario for a Russia where the civil war was not won by a communist dictatorship who uprooted the middle class and destroyed the opposition. It may look familiar to the way Germany went to pieces and here you have a reverse Barbarossa. Would this regime ally with Imperial Japan or has it taken territory? Does the UK or USA send aid to surviving Imperial Germany to defend itself and then assist in liberating the Finns, Poles and others in East Europe? Where is A-H? Or does its crumbling embolden this Russia? Have Russia invade Romania and Germany is without oil, that is its Achilles heel, that would let this Russia break into Eastern Germany until the "Allies" mobilize. Does France go "fascist" so it is the Russian abettor? I would think here the defeated Russia is divided by ethnic lines to form a host of independent nations much like how A-H was broken up. That gets you a lot of new nations and ways to restore old borders.
 

Redcoat

Banned
Where is A-H?
Splits into 3 to German backed Kingdoms of Croatia, Austria and Hungary.

Would this regime ally with Imperial Japan or has it taken territory?
Uneasy peace with the Japanese.

Does the UK or USA send aid to surviving Imperial Germany to defend itself and then assist in liberating the Finns, Poles and others in East Europe?
Anglo-German alliance wins against Franco-Russians, not sure about the rest. Imperial Germany is in a strong position TTL.

I would think here the defeated Russia is divided by ethnic lines to form a host of independent nations much like how A-H was broken up. That gets you a lot of new nations and ways to restore old borders.
So basically OTL Russia borders? That seems a bit low for something like this Nazi analogue. The guide I'm using here is Germany. The Oder-Neisse line imo is in now way based on ethnic lines, more like geographic and resource based lines. So knowing that, how would you think Russia might be affected?
 
So basically OTL Russia borders? That seems a bit low for something like this Nazi analogue. The guide I'm using here is Germany. The Oder-Neisse line imo is in now way based on ethnic lines, more like geographic and resource based lines. So knowing that, how would you think Russia might be affected?

I think it is plausible to reduce it to OTL Russian borders. Without the Ukraine Russia has lost a significant portion of its population and agriculture, and if the southern tier is stripped away that leaves Siberia and the old Russian core. Those are still a big country but to go further you might want an analogue to the post-war partition of Germany, that should be your Imperial Japan. Japan here steps in to "occupy" the East. Germany occupies some fraction along with GB and USA, and things go Cold War thereafter? Moscow divided? Germany is worn out akin to GB or France post-war, becoming the lesser partner to USA and British Empire? This echoes OTL rather conveniently. Interesting but sounds quite fantastic. My guess would be that here GB was neutral in the Great War thus far more potent and willing to realign to Germany to preserve peace and European balance? So if Japan was allied to this Russia then I suspect it went to war over China, very likely with GB first, that could give you a few nuked cities assuming Germany or GB or the USA build (or built) them, and we did not partition Japan, rather we rebuilt. We only have the likely friction among the Anglo-American-German combine to further put Russia down. I can see these more co-equal powers less united but not enough to break Russia itself up. Have Moscow a pile of irradiated ruble and Russia is hurt badly. Simple have the prevailing powers fail to meaningfully rebuild and go down a disintegration route as various provinces emerge independent? Without a true foe to show up that might be sadly realistic.
 

Redcoat

Banned
I think it is plausible to reduce it to OTL Russian borders. Without the Ukraine Russia has lost a significant portion of its population and agriculture, and if the southern tier is stripped away that leaves Siberia and the old Russian core. Those are still a big country but to go further you might want an analogue to the post-war partition of Germany, that should be your Imperial Japan. Japan here steps in to "occupy" the East. Germany occupies some fraction along with GB and USA, and things go Cold War thereafter? Moscow divided? Germany is worn out akin to GB or France post-war, becoming the lesser partner to USA and British Empire? This echoes OTL rather conveniently. Interesting but sounds quite fantastic. My guess would be that here GB was neutral in the Great War thus far more potent and willing to realign to Germany to preserve peace and European balance? So if Japan was allied to this Russia then I suspect it went to war over China, very likely with GB first, that could give you a few nuked cities assuming Germany or GB or the USA build (or built) them, and we did not partition Japan, rather we rebuilt. We only have the likely friction among the Anglo-American-German combine to further put Russia down. I can see these more co-equal powers less united but not enough to break Russia itself up. Have Moscow a pile of irradiated ruble and Russia is hurt badly. Simple have the prevailing powers fail to meaningfully rebuild and go down a disintegration route as various provinces emerge independent? Without a true foe to show up that might be sadly realistic.

Interesting...never thought to extend the parallels even further, though it won't be complete as I know where to go TTL for the rest of Europe. That divided Moscow thought sounds interesting.
 
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