Ideal German tank?

[marathag]

Did you mean this thing?

Its the only pre-war 47mm armed Czech tank I could find

That sounds like the T-21, which later became the 40M Turan. Sure you aren't thinking of Skoda not CKD?

they were competing for the same contract, so were similar to a degree

 

[Capt Thunderbolt]

Yes note the disruption to tank production between Aug -Dec 1940 when the PZIII up-gunned to the 5cm L42 and a lesser disruption when later changing to the L60

To be fair,

At the same time they recalled 600 units and upgraded them.

And they waited till France was won.

Not just guns, external mantlet and storage, but add on armour, moving return rollers, belt feed MG over drum, etc etc.

Effectively ALL earlier 600 3.7cm Pz3 were up graded vs 250 new production loss.

Add on armour can be added to cast or rolled base layer.

#The armour fit was decided pre 36 against 25mm gun and pre 40-47mm. #

 

[Capt Thunderbolt]

Thinking that the upgrading to 47mm would happen pre-war when overallproduction was low while they were also sorting out the suspension issues, and even if not, don't have all plants change to 47mm at the same time.
Only 96 IIIE chassis were built thru 1939 by Daimler and MAN, with Alkett and Krupp supplying the turrets, who in turn were getting 37mm from Rheinmetall.

The 3.7cm had already planned to be lengthened in '38, basically to original Tak 37 back in '29. It was consided a waste of time.

The long 5.0cm was ready in '38 and could have been put into the Pz3 in its early evolution. There would have being no delay, competing with Pak 37 going to an expanding Heer.

The upgrade would have been less, and production fully restarted earlier.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

The 3.7cm had already planned to be lengthened in '38, basically to original Tak 37 back in '29. It was consided a waste of time.

The long 5.0cm was ready in '38 and could have been put into the Pz3 in its early evolution. There would have being no delay, competing with Pak 37 going to an expanding Heer.

The upgrade would have been less, and production fully restarted earlier.

Begs the question - why didn't they?

 

[Finbarr the Fair]

Begs the question - why didn't they?

Good question.

My guess is that setting up two production lines was a lower priority at the time than other things the Germans thought they needed more. And hadn't the resources to do both.

 

[Capt Thunderbolt]

Begs the question - why didn't they?

Good question, it was suggested very early (1932!), and lots excuses / needless road blocks!
panzer tracts no 3-3, Jentz and Doyle

(sorry for slow response, internet has been down for a few days post storms)

 

[Cryhavoc101]

Good question, it was suggested very early (1932!), and lots excuses / needless road blocks!
panzer tracts no 3-3, Jentz and Doyle

(sorry for slow response, internet has been down for a few days post storms)

View attachment 700420View attachment 700421

No worries - that's all very interesting

The need for a gun that is not longer than the leading edge of the vehicle - I suspect that this was to prevent digging in if dropping into a trench or damaging the gun on a building or another tank if in convoy etc - obviously in the face of the requirement for greater penetration this was eventually done away with.

Also interesting is the initial 'can't do attitude' of the manufacturers regarding the L60 over the L42!

 

[Cryhavoc101]

they were competing for the same contract, so were similar to a degree

Thanks

Is it me - or are those dummy guns and MGs?

 

[marathag]

Thanks

Is it me - or are those dummy guns and MGs?

Yes, an there are some earlier testing of the prototypes without the turrets, just using weights to simulate the load for automotive tests

 

[Capt Thunderbolt]

Also interesting is the initial 'can't do attitude' of the manufacturers regarding the L60 over the L42!

And when Hitler cracked it, the L60 variant was found almost indentical. The breech, mantlet, hull all the same. Only had to allow for longer recoil and balancing rod.

Lucky for the Allies, the few Pz3 didn't have 50/L60. Matilda 2 and Char would have very badly.

The Soviets had already purchase the Tak37, pre-nazis and after a couple of years, considered 37mm done. The M1932 45mm, was their update. Yes 1932!!

The 37mm was no contemporary of the 2 PDR

Note spoked wheels of earlier '30s 45mm model before mechanisation.