Ichronic Color Scheme 1.0

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Review:

SECTION 5: MEDITERRANEA

1) Greece/Delian League (Athens)/Nicea: #800080; 128, 0, 128 (Patriarch)
2) Sparta/Micenaean Greece: #9E1316; 158, 19, 22 (Spartan Crimson)
3) Corinth and Magna Graecia/Kingdom of Naples: #F7E89F; 247, 232, 159 (Yellow Naples)
4) Sicily/Minoan Crete: #317873; 49, 120, 115 (Myrtle green)
5) Macedonia/Trebizond: #BD33A4; 189, 51, 164 (Byzantine)
6) Rome: #66023C; 40, 1, 24 (Tyrian Purple)
7) Papal States: #F5F5F5; 245, 245, 245 (White Smoke)
8) Venice: #C80815; 20, 8, 21 (Venetian Red)
9) Etruscans/Tuscany/Florence: #FAD6A5; 250, 214, 165 (Tuscan)
10) Carthage/Tunisia: #DECC9C; 222, 204, 156 (Lion)
11) Algeria/Berbers/kingdom of Numidia: #967117; 150, 113, 23 (Bistre Brown)
12) Lybia: #C2B280; 194, 178, 128 (Ecru)
13) Modern Lybian Rebels: #006A00; 0, 106, 0 (Former Lybian Flag Color)
14) Morocco #0F4E67; 15, 78, 103 (Moroccan Blue)
15) Cordoba/Granada #893F45; 137, 63, 69 (Cordoban)

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Before starting with the next section, I need to introduce a concept to the CS.
We already discussed the American Megacities and Megaregions, now I'm going to briefly discuss their European counterpart.
While there isn't a general agreement on what the European Megacities are and how many of them there are, for the most part six have been identified as "Emerging Megaregions".
As I understand it, these "Emerging" Megaregions are nothing new, but are more or less corresponding to... a.hem... re-emerging? historical regions that have been since incorporated and sometimes divided into larger nation-states between the 1650s and the 1870s.

Think of it as a sort of modern-day wank of former medieval kingdoms.

The most important of those six regions is the European Core or "Blue Banana" that corresponds to the former Carolingian kingdom of Lotharingia with the addition of Southern England, so think of it as a sorta Saxon.Lotharingian wank or a "What If Empress Mathilda had won the First English Civil War?" scenario.
The second is the Sun Coast or "Golden Banana", essentially an Occitania on Steroids that Runs from Valencia to Genoa.
Third comes the Green Banana that covers most of Eastern Europe; if there had ever been a Vampire Empire, this would be it.
The fourth is the Atlantic Axis, A Galicia-Leon of sort that even includes Santiago de Compostela.
Further North come the Strand (Low-level Denmark-wank or Kalmar Union-lite) and the Gulf of Finland, between themselves being a cross between the Teutonic Order and the Hanseatic League.

Each has a color that doubles for its historical counterpart, but more on it later.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

The Golden Banana's more immediate historic equivalent would be Occitania, but I'd rather use the color for Genoa for it, to reflect its commercial union status.
For the purpose of this CS Genoa will be considered an extention of South-western Europe (and therefore France) in opposition to Venice, which has closer ties to the Byzantine Empire and the East. So Genoa/Golden Banana will be included as the 15th entry in the Western Europe Section, and its color wil be Rosso Tiziano (#BA6262; 73, 38, 38)

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Central Europe is proving more of a challenge than I had anticipated.
For the time being, i'm just leaving a preview of the original three Elder Stem Duchies

1) Bavaria #008AC9; 0, 54, 79
2) Swabia #CFB53B; 81, 71, 23 (Old Gold)
3) Saxony #355E3B; 21, 37, 23 (Hunter Green)

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

A suggestion for a Gothic color Palette:

1) Visigoths #231230
2) Ostrogoths #582C51
3) Gepids #B7B7B7
4) Geats #A08A99

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

The Sun Coast/Golden Banana/Republic of Genoa might double as the color for the Kingdom of the Vandals as that of any non-native minor Mediterranean power with closer ties to mainland Europe than the Med itself.
Gepids could use the standard Romanian color rather than have their own, but I don't feel right about it, as Gepids should be distinct from modern Romanians and ancient dacians both, even if the Greek name for the Dacians, Getae, would seem to suggest otherwise

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

The Migration Period IMHO is fundamental to understand the following Vendel Period; unfortunately both have been underrepresented on maps, not so much for the inability of mapmaker on this or other sites, but because both of the periods themselves are little known and little understood.
To complicate matters, any existing color scheme is intended to represent much later periods, starting with the late Middle Ages into the Modern Era.
Any halfway decent representation of this period would require more than just new colors, but rather new conventions as well.
I've been thinking about that for a few days, but no satisfactory solution came to me.

Now I'm trying to decide if I should skip the whole mess, go directly to the "Heart of Europe" section and leave the Vendel Period for a later time (maybe even for its own thread) or discuss it now, and then go on to the Hearth of Europe.
Given the complexity of the subject, which risks to de-route the purpose of this thread, I think going for the first option is the best choice.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Once you skip the Germanic Tribes from the Palette, Scaninavia beomes pretty linear, even tame, and in line with any other existing CS.
I'l keep it that way for the time being.

SECTION 6(?): NORTHERN EUROPE

1) Norway: #9090C0; 144, 144, 192 (Cool Gray)
2) Sweden: #008B8B; 0, 139, 139 (Dark Cyan)
3) Denmark: #C60C30; 198, 12, 48 (Dannebrog Color)
4) Iceland: #DE6FA1; 222, 111, 161 (Thulian Pink)
5) Finland: #FAF0BE; 250, 240, 190 (blond)

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Do you think Frisia needs a color?

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Do you think Frisia needs a color?

It looks like it does:

EDIT: from what I'm reading, it would look like Frisia does indeed need a color, but as part of Greater Britannia, not Germany.
Therefore, I'm just going to publish the Germany/Central Europe Palette as it is, and leave Frisia for later.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

If there is one thing you learn from mapmaking and from History, both from this site and outside of it, is that, no matter which way you look at it, Germany is a mess on a good day, a nightmare on a bad one.
No matter if you lean more on History or Geography, there will always be something that doesn't add up.

Before you even think of mappings, you'll have to figure out a way to make sense of it, and good luck with that.
Well, here is my attempt.
Sit comfortably, it may take awhile.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Let's start with the name: Germany.
It comes from Latin GERMANIA, and it started to be used by the Romans more or less around the time of Julius Caesar; to complicate matter, it didn't have a precise definition (Language, customs): Caesar and the other classic authors from Rome and Greece were trying to distinguish them from the Gauls "those weird people from the North" and Shytians "those weird people from the East" so they came out with the name Germani, whose meaning and origin is uncertain, but it's safe to assume that in Graeco-Latin slang it meant "Those even weirder peoples from way farther North East".
Things remain rather nebulous until some of those people decide to move closer, beginning the Migration Period (circa 300-circa 650).
As I said, that would warrant a sub-scheme and probably a thread of its own.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

After the Gothic Wars the Migration Period ends (sort of) and more stable kingdoms arise: the Kingdom of the Franks, of the Burgundians, and the Kingdom of the Lombards (let's take this spelling to keep it simple).
The first nucleus of what would be later known as Germany are the Elder Stem Duchies: Bavaria, Alemannia and Saxony, very roughly overlapping with the modern German Landers of Baden-Wuttenberg, Niedersaxen-Hannover and Bavaria.
Here things start to get complicated again: of the three Elder Duchies Bavaria was the most stable, and Alemannia the least, but it was Saxony that resisted Frankish rule the longer.
Given that it was both geographically removed and historically different from the other two, and got heavily involved in the history of Britain, it may be discussed separately.
Bavaria being the stabler of the pack makes it also the least interesting, in this period, but it will become important later.
Alemannia on the contrary, had had its moment of glory already, during the Migration Period, but that would remain pretty much forgotten until Wagner decided to take note.
Beyond Saxony layed the Kingdom of the Thuringians, but very little is known at this point about them.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

And now comes the part I was waiting for, my radical departure from tradition and from any existing Color Scheme.
I already hinted at the fact that Frisia, for some peculiar characteristics of her, is closer to England than Germany, and will therefore be treated as part of a separate section that I call Greater Britannia.
I envision Greater Britannia as a strip of land on the coasts of the North Sea, and running, tentatively, from the Western Coast of Jutland to Finisterre in Bretagne, also including, of course the British Islands.
The rest of (enlarged) Central Europe will take the form of what I've called the Continental Divide.
Of the three Elder Stem Duchies, one, (Lower) Saxony, will follow Frisia into Greater Britannia, but Germany will still have a Saxony, a Upper Saxony, that's far more "German" than its counterpart (I told you things were complicated).
Bavaria and Alemannia meanwhile, will be joined by the Kingdom of the Lombards to form the Continental Divide across the alps.
Switzerland, Austria and Czech Republic are coming as a second tier.
Still not sure on where Greater Britannia ends and the Continental Divide begins.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Now I have a question.
At some point, the title of Holy Roman Emperor was contended between three major royal houses: the wittelbach of Bavaria (Bavarian color) the Habsburg of Austria (Austrian color) and the Luxemburg of Bohemia. should the last one have the color of Luxemburg or that of Bohemia? Because that's going to determine whether they end up in the Continental Divide or Greater Britannia

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

WHY THE LUXEMBURG COLOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN IT LOOKS (IN I.C.S.)

I've done some research in the last week, and came to the conclusion that, taken by itself, the color of Luxemburg should be used for the Bohemian faction of the Holy Roman Empire's succession dispute.
The matter however is larger and more complex than just Luxemburg.

The color I use for the actual Grand Duchy doubles as Burgundy, or rather, some of the 10-15 entities that have been called "Burgundy" through history, from the Kingdom of the Burgundians during (again) the Migration Period to the Commonwealth of Burgundy (modern name, not used at the time) which comprised many semi-independent and half-dependent statelets in the 1300s and 1400s, including Luxemburg.
In fact I'm not really sure of the actual relation between the CoB and Luxemburg, but that can be worked around with some clever use of shades and outlines once I figure it out.
To further complicate matter, there are two colors for burgundy, the other being Belgium which is part of the French palette.
And even that may not be enough, since as I said "All the Burgundies" includes something like 15 entities, one of them being Provence (Provence color).
To fill some of the holes I'm considering to use Royal Blue (Lotharingia) as a Burgundian color, rather than a German one.
This however opens the door to a whole new series of problems: I considered Burgundy as a part of Greater Britannia, rather than France or Germany, not only because of the alliance of the Burgundians with the English during the 100 Years War, but also for the pre-roman contacts between Belgica and Britannia.
Throwing in the Lotharingia color would widen the scope and range of describing the Continental influence of the British Islands, but would also widen this perceived influence within the Carolingian Empire all the way to Northern Italy.
As part of the HRE, I included Northern Italy (Lombardy) into the Central European Palette rather than the Mediterranean one, like say, Rome or Venice.
By Including Lotharingia into the Burgundian, and therefore Brittonic sphere, which is theoretically possible as part of the political agenda of the Anglo-Burgundian sovereigns was indeed to create a new Lotharingia, I also open the door to include say, Switzerland and Lombardy in it, rather than having them Germanic.
Again, theoretically possible, but rather too bold as a move.

Also, this reopen a question that I thought settled, should I consider Aquitania as French or as English?

What do you think?

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

Hi guys, the history of the Burgundies is proving to be too complex to be straightforwardly laid down like I did with Rome and Greece, so I decided to tweak the ICS a bit, drop the question for now, and maybe return to it later.

WHAT WE HAVE SO FAR:

NORTH AMERICA (U.S.A., Canada, Natives )
CENTRAL AMERICA & CARIBBEAN (major U.S. Influence)
HISPANOSPHERE (1418-1975, major Spanish Influence)
MEDITERRANEA (Rome, Greece, North Africa, Hellenistic Kingdoms and Roman Successor States; Does not include the Holy Roman Empire and the Middle East; Includes Venice and Southern Italy, as well as the Papal States)
WESTERN EUROPE (From the Celts to modern France; includes Belgium and parts of Spain and Northern Italy - Genoa and the minor Italian States like Lucca, Pisa and Siena, but not Milan, neither does include Bretagne and Normandy)
SCANDINAVIA (no surprise here)

WORKS IN PROGRESS:

CONTINENTAL DIVIDE: to avoid confusion, it will be renamed MITTELEUROPA. Includes two of the early Stem Duchies that would eventually form Germany, as well as Austria, Switzerland, Lombardy, Czech Republic and Prussia, but it does not include Lower Saxony (Hannover). Historically, it goes from said early duchies in late Roman times to the Holy Roman Empire, the Central Powers, Nazi Germany and the Cold War. Includes the Hanseatic League, whose color will double for the Weimar Republic and Western Germany (Modern Germany will have a different color).
GREATER BRITANNIA: to avoid confusion, it will be renamed NORTH SEA & THE BRITISH ISLANDS. Besides the U.K. and Ireland with their Historical subdivisions, will include Burgundy (see below) the Netherlands and Luxemburg, Lower Saxony/Hannover and Frisia, Bretagne and Normandy. It will NOT include Aquitaine, that will go with Western Europe.

TWEAKS:

Lotharingia/Lorraine/Blue Banana will be for now included in MITTELEUROPA.

The Sun Coast (From Barcellona to Pisa) will be included in Western Europe. It will be mainly used to represent Genoa (to distinguish it from Venice, which is considered part of MEDITERRANEA). With shades, it will also cover the minor coastal republics of Italy, like Lucca, Pisa, Siena, as well as Marseille, though those will be outlined with the Tuscan, French and Papal colors depending on circumstances). It will also be used to depict the Kingdom of the Vandals, to distinguish it from both Chartage and Modern Tunisia, in the same manner as Venice.

ALL THE BURGUNDIES may one day become its own entry. If so, it will probably include Lotharingia, Provence, Belgium, the Netherland, Luxemburg and Lombardy, and maybe Switzerland. For now, as I said, Belgium will remain part of WESTERN EUROPE, along with Provence, Lotharingia and Switzerland will be part of MITTELEUROPA, while the Netherland and Luxemburg (which will share the color with Burgundy) will be part of the NORTH SEA &THE BRITISH ISLANDS. This also mean that the late roman Kingdoms of the Burgundians will be considered an extension of continental Britain (sorry Herr Wagner) at least until I can fit it within a Goth Empire.

The Geats color will double as Vikings. I'm not sure wether to include it in the North Sea and British Islands along with Frisia (as hinted in Beowulf), or with Scandinavia along the Norwegian/Norsemen, or put it into a league of its own, but, if any of you were thinking to do a timeline or a thread based on Beowulf, now you can.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

After a long revision, I think I've finally come up with some acceptable compromise about the German Lands.

MITTELEUROPA

1) Bavaria: 008AC9; 0, 138, 201
2) Swabia/Alemannia: #CFB53B; 207, 181, 59 (Old Gold)
3) Saxony (Kingdom of): #355E3B; 53, 94, 59 (Hunter Green)
4) Thuringia: #DBD7D2; 219, 215, 210 (Timberwolf)
5) Franconia/Hessen/Electoral Bishopric: #6C3082; 108, 48, 130 (Eminence)
6) Lorraine/Lotharingia/"Blue Banana": #002366; 0, 35, 102 (Royal Blue)
7) Palatinate: #72246C; 114, 36, 108 (Palatinate)
8) Holy Roman Empire (also as an outline): #DBB000; 219, 176, 0
9) Bohemia/Czech Republic/Czechoslovachia: #614051; 97, 64, 81 (Eggplant)
NOTE: Use an outlined lighter color for Vidukind's Moravia
10) Slovenia/Styria: ACA100: 172, 161, 0
11) Hanseatic League (outline)/Weimar Republic (1919-1933)/West Germany (1946-1989): #E9D66B; 233, 214. 107 (Hansa Yellow)
12) Switzerland: #C0C0C0; 192, 192, 192 (Silver)
13) Lombardy/Milan: #EF9D0F; 239, 157, 15
14) Austria/Habsburgic Empire: #960018; 150, 0, 24 (Imperial Carmine)
15) Prussia/German Empire (1871-1918): #003153; 0, 49, 83 (Prussian Blue)
NOTE: I'm not sure wether this should be used for modern Germany as well; sure it would make a lot of blue when close to France and Italy, especially with an U.E. outline. Maybe a 25% lighter shade would do.
16) Nazi Germany #4D5D53; 77, 93, 83 (Feldgrau)
17) East/communist Germany #DA2C43; 218, 44, 67 (Rusty Red)
18) European Union #003399; 0, 51, 153 (Pantone Reflex blue)
NOTE: would a reverse of this (#FFCC66) be more suited for modern Germany?
19) Modern Germany: ?

Anything you would add?

 

[Gokbay]

Modern Germany is a direct continuation of West Germany so why not have modern Germany use that color as well?