Iberian Union under Alfonso of Portugal and Isabella of Castille

Alfonso was the crown prince of Portugal and wed by proxy to Isabella, eldest daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella. By several accpunts the arranged marriage grew very quickly into a genuinely loving relationship. Unfortunately the prince died at age 16 in a horse-riding accident - had he survived he and his wife could have united the crowns of Iberia under their eldest (male) child.

What does an Iberian Union under these monarchs or their immediate descendants look like? How much stronger do they become as a united kingdom by standing together, especially if the Habsburgs never come into control of Spain and its wealth?
 
Doesn't even need to be male child, if they only had daughters, the oldest would succeed to all.
Anyway...I wouldn't say the Habsburgs couldn't come into control of Spain. All we need is one intermarriage.
A surviving Alfonso butterflies away Miguel da Paz, probably butterflies the entire Manuel/Maria marriage meaning a LOT of people are taken out of the game here, maybe Maria becomes Duchess of Savoy?
 
And since Philip remains in his beloved Burgundy, he could outside his father and become Holy Román Emperor
Well, Philip not inheriting Castile or Aragon, means that he has no rivalry with Ferdinand.
Joanna would also certainly have more children, given her high fertility. Maybe the youngest son would be betrothed to Mary Tudor the younger.
 
And it means that the Habsburgs can remains focused slowly in maintaining their Germanic holdings and the Imperial crown. Plus their fights agaisnt the french and Turks.
 
The allianet between spain and Austria Will still be in place due to Joanna and phillip's marriage, just not as strong, but yeah, they could add England to their Ally list
 
but ittl they're not as powerful therefore less of a threat
it's not about the strength of the austrians, but the fact that the french and turks will want to expand in europe. Austria will be forced to defend itself. What will likely happen is that the Austrians will try to centralize the HRE more. Depending on the situation, they may even convert to Protestantism.
 
it's not about the strength of the austrians, but the fact that the french and turks will want to expand in europe. Austria will be forced to defend itself. What will likely happen is that the Austrians will try to centralize the HRE more.
Only if they lack Hungary imo. An uber-"Germany" from Picardy (if they have burgundy) to Caparthia would be unwieldy and collapse from the recoil if they try to assert their authority over all of it. Plus the Hungarian nobility were always, always, the biggest complainers in the whole empire and would object both to a centralized realm, and austria neglecting them.
Depending on the situation, they may even convert to Protestantism.
Did any german state south of saxony do that? Like, they could be the exception to prove the rule but I don't see it
 
Only if they lack Hungary imo.
a good part of hungary will be conquered after 1500. Without the strength of the Spanish it will be even more difficult to protect austria from the Turks. It is possible only more difficult, hence the idea of trying to centralize part of the hre.
An uber-"Germany" from Picardy (if they have burgundy) to Caparthia would be unwieldy and collapse from the recoil if they try to assert their authority over all of it.
a greater centralization of the hre core around austria is possible if the threats present themselves. France to the West, probably conquering Burgundy and Milan (both easier to conquer without the Spaniards to protect them). Turks to the south trying to expand further. This does not mean that the hr will be centralized, only that the idea of a German nation will be born sooner so to speak. With the Austrians trying to expand in the hre to have more strength.
Plus the Hungarian nobility were always, always, the biggest complainers in the whole empire and would object both to a centralized realm, and austria neglecting them.
Between the Hungarian nobility and a greater consolidation of the empire the choice is obvious. Austria will not act in the same way, because it does not have the same strength. The likely ally of the nation will be England and the power base of Austria will be Germany itself.
Did any german state south of saxony do that? Like, they could be the exception to prove the rule but I don't see it
the austrian inquisition killed most protestants in the south.
 
Only if they lack Hungary imo. An uber-"Germany" from Picardy (if they have burgundy) to Caparthia would be unwieldy and collapse from the recoil if they try to assert their authority over all of it. Plus the Hungarian nobility were always, always, the biggest complainers in the whole empire and would object both to a centralized realm, and austria neglecting them.

Did any german state south of saxony do that? Like, they could be the exception to prove the rule but I don't see
In South Germany parts of Elzas parts of Swiss Kantons The Palatinate,Wurtemberg ,Baden-Durlach Baden-Hachberg,Hennenberg Oettingen,Leiningen Hanau,Castell and more of the nobility most of the Imperial Cities and even most of the Nobility in Austria were all prostestant
 
From what I understand, even with all the riches of the New World, the Habsburgs' primary source of wealth was through the trade of the low countries, Flanders in particular. So the Habsburgs may be pretty okay without the additional wealth coming from Spain, Sicily, and the New World.

Butterflies could keep Juan of Castile and Aragon alive if Afonso stays alive, there could be a very interesting dynamic between the brothers-in-law and the kings of the two leading powers on the peninsula. I'm just gonna assume that any eldest son of Afonso's is called Joao, gonna roll with that here. How many years forward do you want to keep other deaths and births in this scenario the same as in OTL, since that will play a big part as to who Joao marries? The immediate short term knock on effects may even just have Joao II live a bit longer since his heir is alive and healthy, maybe the joy of beinf elevated to the title of Vovô Joao allows him to live several years longer, and the overall happiness of both houses increases everyone's life span. Having Joao II living even an extra 10 years changes the entire dynamic. He was never one to just roll over to Isabel and Fernando or be so quick to ally to them. Maybe that keeps Portugal and Castile/Aragon on more of a professional alliance footing as opposed to the closely knit familial alliance that Manuel forged with the the Spanish Habsburgs, more handshakes and less hugs if you will. How about any extra kids? I imagine Afonso and Isabel will be knocking duckbills every chance they get.
 
Between the Hungarian nobility and a greater consolidation of the empire the choice is obvious. Austria will not act in the same way, because it does not have the same strength. The likely ally of the nation will be England and the power base of Austria will be Germany itself.
i mean, OTL they chose hungary and kept the germans as allies, not subjects or provinces. so i think my point stands
 
From what I understand, even with all the riches of the New World, the Habsburgs' primary source of wealth was through the trade of the low countries, Flanders in particular. So the Habsburgs may be pretty okay without the additional wealth coming from Spain, Sicily, and the New World.
They will be pretty okay but they won't be the terrifyingly powerful threat they were IOTL. They can't be. However, they will be more focused on what they do have, meaning no Charles V situation.
 
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