I Will Either Find a Way, or Make One

[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium, sans-serif]I Will Either Find a Way, or Make One[/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The Story of Carthage[/FONT]​


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The Battle of Metaurus was a pivotal battle in the Second Punic War Fought between Rome and Carthage, fought in 207 BC near the Metauro River in Italy. The Carthaginians were led by Hannibal's brother Hasdrubal Barca who was supposed to bring the siege equipment and reinforcements necessary in order for Hannibal to defeat Rome. The Roman armies were led by the consuls Marcus Livius, who would later be nicknamed The salinator, and Gaius Cladius Nero who had just fought Hannibal in Grumentum, and had reached Marcus Livius with a forced march which went unnoticed by both Hannibal and Hasrubal, so the Carthaginians suddenly found themselves outnumbered.​


What if Hasdrubal had been able to sneak past these to consular armies and join up with Hannibal in his Siege of Rome?


Hannibal's March on Rome:


The war in essence, was going badly for Carthage at this point. The Scipio brothers had all but taken control over Iberia, he had lost the strategic allies of Capua and Tarentum to the Romans, and Publius Scipio was forging an alliance with the Numidian king Massinissa. The arrival of Hasdrubal brought in much needed reinforcements to the severely weakened army. Hannibal, being the grand strategist he was, thought he had finally discovered a way to counter the notorious Fabian Strategy. With siege weapons, Hannibal could now force the Romans to engage him, or face the destruction of their capital.​


The march on Rome was hurried. When news of Hannibal enroute to Rome, Consul Cladius Nero was dispatched to defend the city, and his army was bolstered to 40,000 from other consul armies, about on par with the Barca's combined army. When he finally enaged Hannibal north of Rome he was defeated. It was not a catastrophic defeat, losing about 9,000 men, but the battle sent shockwaves throughout the Roman senate. It became clear that Scipio would have to abandon his campaign against the Carthaginian allied Libyans under King Syphax and his new alliance with the Numidians and return to Rome to face Hannibal.​


Carthage soon after negotiated a truce with the Numidians, after King Massinissa realized his prospects of inflicting any actual damage on the Carthaginians was small after Scipio's withdrawl. Besides, he had to continue the war against the Libyans.​


On the home front, The Council of 104 was still against reinforcing Hannibal, who they viewed as a warmonger and wished peace with Rome. The peace faction, led by Hanno the Great, was the most supported in the Council. It would still take a major victory for Hannibal to sway the support of the aristocrats.​


Hannibal's siege began shortly after Cladius Nero's defeat. Cladius Nero was criticized for his defeat, but was in the process of rebuilding his army for a rematch with Hannibal. Once Scipio made landfall in Italy Hannibal prepared for the crucial battle. Scipio engaged Hannibal after resting his army and the two strategists began the battle that would shape the fate of their two nations. Scipio failed to engage Hannibal's cavalry and that proved to be the turning point in the battle. At the end of the day, 7,000 Romans lay dead on the field, with 5,000 prisoners taken in. Scipio was wise however to retreat after he saw the way the battle was going and didn't suffer horrendous casualties. Scipio decided to combine his army with that of Cladius Nero's.​


The siege continued and the Roman population was near breaking point. Mass riots were prevalent and famine was widespread as food became more and more scarce. After several weeks, Scipio was ready for his rematch. Hannibal had sent his general Gisgo to raid the detachments of the army but the results were mixed at best. Scipio was then able to outrun Gisgo to Rome. Cladius Nero's army was separated from Scipio's to pinched the sieging army together. The Second Battle of Rome was about to begin.​


The Second Battle of Rome:


Scipio's combined army stood at 80,000, nearly twice the size of Hannibal's. However mis communications between Cladius Nero and Scipio resulted in Nero's army attacking Hannibal before Scipio was ready. Hannibal soundly defeated Nero and Scipio was rushed into battle. The remains of Nero's army trickled back to Scipio putting it at 63,000. Nero was stripped of his command as well for his disastrous mistake. Despite the unprepared and disorganized troops, Hannibal was losing the battle. During the battle it became evident of the desperation of Rome. The troops that were raised before Scipio's arrival were in their 40's and some children as young as 10 were used. This proved to be too much of a disadvantage for Scipio against Hannibal's tactics. As the day drew close Scipio had been soundly defeated, but managed to retreat with a still sizable force, leaving Scipio's army at 27,000 and Hannibal's at 35,000. Hannibal realized that he might never again have an opportunity to completely crush his rival. He left Hasdrubal with the siege equipment and a part of the army and chased after Scipio.​


The Battle of The Volturnus River and Scipio's Final Defeat:


Scipio's army was utterly disorganized and weakened. Hannibal's army was gaining and Scipio did not stop now and reorganize and rest his troops, there would be no hope of victory. Rome's manpower pool was utterly drained, so their would be no waiting for reinforcements, and besides, the city of Rome was on it's last legs and to retreat and recover would mean the destruction of the city. Scipio's army was not utterly destroyed, but this did not make a sizable difference in the battle. Scipio's army was routed and mobile units of Hannibal's army had destroyed the bridges on the Volturnus river, cutting the retreating troops off from safety. Scipio's army was utterly destroyed and Scipio himself was taken captive. When faced with either peace or his own death, he chose death rather then the humiliation he would face with the Roman populace.​


Troubles in Italy:


With Hannibal now several miles south, Hasdrubal was left suprisingly vunerable. He has an army of 10,000 at his disposal, but the sneaky Consul Hostillo had swept up from the north to surprise Hasdrubal. Hasdrubal was not known for his military skills, but he of course realized how utterly crucial his position was. If the Romans were allowed to break the siege they could regroup and The Barca's would be back were they started. Consul Hostillo's army was not large 9,000 at best, but he also had the advantage of the city garrison still inside of Rome at his disposal. Hasdrubal realized it did not matter if his army was utterly annihilated, the only thing that mattered was the siege lasting long enough for Hannibal to return. Hasdrubal split his army in to several units and positioned them in defensive areas north of Rome. He raided Hostillo's army on it's way to Rome. He was largely successful at weakening the Roman army despite the horrendous casualties he suffered. He has also left a skeleton crew at Rome maintaning the siege. The city garrison staged an uprising and lifted the siege. Had this happened several days before it would have been significant, but Hannibal's army had already arrived and crushed Hostillo's army.​


The siege went on for another 3 months before Rome finally fell. The city had held out for 1 ½ years, but all was in vain. Despite their victorious siege, Hannibal saw how vunerable Rome was now. He would seek no peace, instead he would see the very destruction of the Roman Empire. Hannibal did not want to deal with the casualties and hardships resulting from an occupation. He had to be mobile to take full advantage of Rome's current weakness. Despite their recent luck Rome was not dead yet. Hannibal ordered the city to be razed rather then suffer casualties of subduing the population. As the city burned Hannibal smiled. He had finally fulfilled the vow he made to his father as a boy “to crush Rome”.​


News of Victory:


The news of the destruction of the city of Rome resulted in the support thrown towards the Barcid War Party in the Carthaginian senate. With the Peace party now weakened, support could now be thrown towards Hannibal. An army of 50,000, mostly of mercenaries, was raised to reinforce Mago's otherwise irrelevent army in Liguria. Reinforcements were finally sent to Hannibal as well. However Carthage bolsters it's defenses as news of the Numidians victory over the Libyans becomes known.​


Philip of Macedon had secured an alliance with Carthage several years earlier, but for the most part had served largely irrelevent in Italian affairs. Macedon had been unable to help Carthage because of the Roman support of the Aetolian league and the war in Greece had largely become a stalemate. With the destruction of Rome, the legions in Greece pulled out to defend Italy, and the city-states of the Aetolian League were left vulnerable. A 6 month long campaign by Philip secured victory and gobbled up many greek city-states and resulted in the dissolution of the Aetolian league. Carthaginian diplomats, under Hannibal, then negotiated a new treaty with Macedon. Macedon was to receive the Greek cities in southern Italy in return for military and naval support.​


As reinforcements streamed in from Carthage, the remnants of the Roman armies were also frantically preparing troops. Lead by Quintus Fulvus a new army was prepared, but by now Rome was scraping the bottom of the manpower pool and had little resources to call upon. With Rome leveled, and slaves streaming back to Carthage, Hannibal set out south to retake the city of Capua and finally take Neapolis.​


Mago was running rampant in the north, virtually unopposed. Many of the border cities of Rome had been conquered by the various Gallic kingdoms of the north. Mago had forged many alliances with these frontier Gallic tribes, such as the Boii and Insubre Kingdoms. He gave them the Roman land he conquered in return for troops. Mago also forged an alliance with the long declined Etruscans, reestablishing their kingdom in northern Italy as a protectorate of Carthage. With the majority of the remaining Roman armies south preparing to fight Hannibal, northern Italy was for the most part lost.​


As Hannibal drove north and conquered the south central cities of Italy, the Samnites rose up against the Roman occupiers. Hannibal was quick to provide assistance and signed a treaty of friendship with them. Hannibal drove south and defeated Consul Fulvus's army near Neapolis and took the city. In it, was a significant portion of Rome's fleet, which was taken under control by Carthage. Hannibal was sufficient in restoring a protectorate of Lucania and relieving Capua, now the largest and richest city in Italy. In 200 B.C. Macedon lands an army in southern Italy in hopes of subduing the area. Hannibal is now on a march to engage Fulvus, who has retreated to the city of Ancona on the coast of the Adriatic sea. Fulvus is in the process of retreating by sea to southeastern Italy, with hopes of linking up with the consul army of Quintus Claudius. He fails to retreat fast enough and Hannibal reaches the city. The remaining troops in the city fight a brutal urban battle with the Carthaginian forces. The remains of the army that made it to sea are ambushed by Macedonian quinquiremes, and is largely destroyed. Although there are still many consular armies operating in Italy The Battle of Ancona is the last major organized resistance by the romans.​
 
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i don't know if anybody remembers but about 2 years ago I made a timeline on a carthaginian victory in the punic wars. I have been meaning to remake for a while because I was alot younger then and my knowledge of world history has increased alot since then, and now I finally got around to it
 
i don't know if anybody remembers but about 2 years ago I made a timeline on a carthaginian victory in the punic wars. I have been meaning to remake for a while because I was alot younger then and my knowledge of world history has increased alot since then, and now I finally got around to it

In that case, would you mind helping me out with mine as well? I've been working a plausible Carthage Wank idea, and Lysandros Aikiedes has been helping a lot.
 
In that case, would you mind helping me out with mine as well? I've been working a plausible Carthage Wank idea, and Lysandros Aikiedes has been helping a lot.

Of course, is yours the thread that has been floating around recently? I have skimmed through it a little bit but I wasnt aware that it was a timeline i thought it was just a discussion. For starters, whats the pod?
 
Here is the map post battle of Ancona. As Rome's power began to wane many successor states were formed as communications between the central authority ceased, with some of the states still holding loyalties while other governors have broken away. Most of the senate had been evacuated out of Rome and continues to govern. Current date is 199 B.C.

Post Battle of Ancona.PNG
 
Of course, is yours the thread that has been floating around recently? I have skimmed through it a little bit but I wasnt aware that it was a timeline i thought it was just a discussion. For starters, whats the pod?

Yes, it is. It's a discussion about what is most plausibly going to happen and I need to have a discussion thread going for a few weeks before I actually start the timeline proper.

The POD is that Scipio Africanus dies at the Battle of Trebia instead of making it out alive. Shortly after, his father and Uncle are killed in battle in Spain by Hasdrubal. This way, Hasdrubal and his reinforcements along with siege equipment are able to march almost unhindered into Italy and upon Rome.
 
Roman Collapse:


After the battle of Ancona Rome was completely exhausted. As the barbarians moved in and the subdued nations rose up against their former masters, many regions no longer regularly communicated with the original government in central Italy. Other regions broke away, as the central government could do little to stop it. The islands of Corsica, Sardinia, and Sicily broke away from the central government, while many other regions declared themselves the true Roman government, because of the old ones failure to repel the invaders. After the battle of Ancona Hannibal drove south, and with his Samnite allies, he conquered Molisium and Apulia. Rome could do little however, it's armies were spent. Hannibal was recalled later that year by Carthage to reconquer all of the lost lands that once belonged to it. Hannibal left his brother Hasdrubal in Italy the continue subjugating Italy.


Hadrubal wasted no time. He marched straight to the new Roman capital at Reate and laid siege to the city. However, a roman army from the north hurried down and defeated Hasdrubal. Hasdrubal retreated to Capua. Hannibal was enraged at hearing this, but could do little about it right now. He instructed his brother to forment a peace treaty. Rome and Carthage were finally at peace, but both knew it wouldn't last. Any future war though would be greatly in Carthage's favor, as Rome was reduced to a small Republic in the center of Italy, it's many enemies it fought for centuries to destroy were now the dominant force on the peninsula.


Mago's army had run rampant across northern Italy, he conquered the Po river valley, and the Roman provinces of Picenum and Ravenna. He spent many more months consolidating his conquests.


Hannibal's Expeditions:


Hannibal first landed at Lilybaem in Sicily. After a two month long siege the city surrendered and was reincorporated into Carthaginian control. The Roman governor in control of the province begged for peace but Hannibal would have none of it. A naval blockade and siege of Roman Sicily's capital Syracuse lasted 6 months and Hannibal's army stormed the city and enslaved and executed all of the Roman soldiers and officials. In about 4 months the rest of the island was under Carthaginian control, and Hannibal put his general Hannibal Gisco as the governor of Sicily.


Hannibal left Corsica and Sardinia to other generals whom had served with them, they were given small mercenary armies and succeeded in taking control of the islands. Hannibal sailed west this time and landed at New Carthage. Hannibal laid siege to the city and their was mass rioting of the native population against Roman rule. Eventually some natives opened the doors and let troops in. After a short city battle the Roman officials surrendered and were executed. After the Roman loss at New Carthage, Hannibal retook the Segura river basin and headed north and captured Sucro. For now Carthaginian control had been nominally restored to Iberia, but Hannibal had more pressing matter to attend to, his return to Carthage.​

Hannibal Reconquests.PNG
 
Yes, it is. It's a discussion about what is most plausibly going to happen and I need to have a discussion thread going for a few weeks before I actually start the timeline proper.

The POD is that Scipio Africanus dies at the Battle of Trebia instead of making it out alive. Shortly after, his father and Uncle are killed in battle in Spain by Hasdrubal. This way, Hasdrubal and his reinforcements along with siege equipment are able to march almost unhindered into Italy and upon Rome.

I've read over your discussion thread and their is a wealth of information there. The death of Scipio would greatly benefit Carthage, and probably would have allowed them to keep their Iberian and African regions under their control. However until Hasdrubal arrives Hannibal really hashis hands tied. Tarentum and Capua have both been lost, and the roman armies do not want to engage him. After that, rome can do little, the other roman generals were only half as competent as Scipio was and they have little hope of defeating Hannibal in battle
 
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