I want to destroy the US, early and permanently

casaubon

How, after the 1783 Treaty of Paris, can the US be broken up into most of its constituent states as disastrously as possible? Some of them can form federations but more independent nations in the early US is preferable to fewer. Commonly, this seems to be sort of handwaved with "keep the Articles of Confederation" but I think that's buying into federalist historiography a little much. The AOC, while worse for modern nation-state formation than the Constitution, could have been reformed and probably would have kept most of the States together at least until some later crisis. I want the colonial US to all but disintegrate.

Couple possible PODs I've been mulling over:
1. Larger and more successful Shays rebellion sparks a desire for even stronger government among the New England states which the rest of the colonies don't want to go along with.
2. Wars break out over the state cessions and political forces are unable to make peace before the whole thing unravels.
3. A slave rebellion occurs that the Northern states are reluctant to put down, causing an early split.
4. Breakdown during the Constitutional Convention that also results in States beginning to retract from the AOC, but over what? It seems clear the elites of most States accepted that their fates were bound together more and that staying united would serve their mutual interests. What force could overcome this inclination?
 
KingOnTheEdge

KingOnTheEdge

Um, well we could have new england leave during the war of 1812, America gets absolutely decked by Britain who takes the northwest territory for a native republic, the south secedes as something like "The Greater Virginia Commonwealth," and also Louisianna (with the basin being split between this country and BNA), a slave revolt takes over the Carolinas and georgia, and I don't think Florida was ceded to the usa yet

I'll post map in a bit
 
Blue Sky

Blue Sky

Have the US sign the articles of confederation over slavery and that’s how I did it before 1800 in my TL.
 
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Byz

A more successful Shays rebellion is a nice start. In general, you want to do what you can to stoke divisions between the South, MidAtlantic, West, and New England. I don't think the US would break up into 13 states, but it could break up into 4 or 5 and each is stymied as a result.
 
Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
Have constitutional conference fail and you have articles of confederation and very weak federal government. Then you have only state militia and armies fighting each other of westward expansion, trade and with 20 years there is no federal government just various states either forming alliances or federations continuously arguing and fighting one another.
 
Resurgam

Resurgam

I want to destroy the US
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I mean, don't we all?

...seriously, though, I'll echo what others have said. A more successful Shays followed by the collapse of the Constitutional Convention and you'll be a good way there. You could also get there if you give the British a reason to get back into North America (well, the part they lost).

A wild card might be a freak death of George Washington. Without a unifying figure, the fledging government will have legitimacy issues.
 
TimTurner

TimTurner

Resurgam said:
I mean, don't we all?

...seriously, though, I'll echo what others have said. A more successful Shays followed by the collapse of the Constitutional Convention and you'll be a good way there. You could also get there if you give the British a reason to get back into North America (well, the part they lost).

A wild card might be a freak death of George Washington. Without a unifying figure, the fledging government will have legitimacy issues.
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have George Washington die in cloudy circumstances while on campaign against the Shays Rebellion and then have any unifying potential from this get wasted away when partisan blame game sets in.
 

Wendell

I saw proposed somewhere one time that thee could have been a Yellow Fever outbreak in Philadelphia during the constitutional convention. Had that occurred, many of the leading luminaries of the country might have died, and with them the Union. Another, earlier option might be to have the border disputes between the states lead to larger conflicts that ultimately doom the Union.
 

Galba Otho Vitelius

Another option is that the Mexican American War still happens but turns into a Mexican curb-stomp of the Americans, followed by secession of the northern states that voted for Fremont.

It would help if you can manipulate things so that it is the northern states that secede in the mid-nineteenth century.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

How will an early fall of the United States affect the wider world? I could see constitutional monarchies instead of republics becoming the norm as democracy spreads ITTL with both major republican experiments (France and the US) ending so badly.
 

Wendell

Whiteshore said:
How will an early fall of the United States affect the wider world? I could see constitutional monarchies instead of republics becoming the norm as democracy spreads ITTL with both major republican experiments (France and the US) ending so badly.
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Assuming democracy itself is not threatened.
 
Tjakari

Tjakari

Wendell said:
I saw proposed somewhere one time that thee could have been a Yellow Fever outbreak in Philadelphia during the constitutional convention. Had that occurred, many of the leading luminaries of the country might have died, and with them the Union. Another, earlier option might be to have the border disputes between the states lead to larger conflicts that ultimately doom the Union.
Click to expand...

Yeah it seems like there was an outbreak almost every year, no?
 
Virginia Liberal

Virginia Liberal

iEswEHo.png

1790s

North America 1830 - Copy.png

end of the 1830s of my tl uses many of the aforementioned points.
 

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Virginia Liberal

Virginia Liberal

Red is British North American and they got it out of the usa before it fell apart. They have a massive fortress complex at otl cario Illinois called Fort Goerge the third. The native American British client state fell in the war of 1805 but fort George III with stood the war. As did Fort Michigan otl Chicago and Fort Detroit same as otl.
 
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