I need a Wife for Edward VI

I'm doing planning for my next TL All Hail Germania, in which Edward VI survives. I am in need of a wife for him, that isn't Mary, Queen of Scots. Any suggestions?
 
Jane Grey perhaps?

And I recall there was a proposed marriage OTL to a French princess. You might have to check for details on that.
 
It basically depends on politics, and which continental government the Brits are trying to be friends with at the time. Once you know that, picking the princess is easy.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_of_Valois

She appears to be only about 9 years younger than him.

If that's not suitable due to butterflies, then just butterfly a suitable Princess in! Perhaps a nice Danish girl - someone along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_of_Denmark ?
Elisabeth of Valois can work as she never marries the Philip II analogue... hmmm

Jane Grey perhaps?

And I recall there was a proposed marriage OTL to a French princess. You might have to check for details on that.
I currently have Jane Grey in on my Family Tree, but it looks like they proposal for blocked so Edward could marry Elizabeth of Valois.

It basically depends on politics, and which continental government the Brits are trying to be friends with at the time. Once you know that, picking the princess is easy.
Well if I do marry him to Elizabeth of Valois, it will be the Spanish, French, and Germans (Mary marries the Philip II analogue, but is still childless, Elizabeth marries the Maximilian II analogue, and is the mother to the Rudolf II analogue, and then if Edward marries a Valois...). My only worry with a Valois, is that Edward will be "Protestant".
 
If that's not suitable due to butterflies, then just butterfly a suitable Princess in! Perhaps a nice Danish girl - someone along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_of_Denmark ?

Weren't the English more aligned to Sweden by this era? Perhaps Catherine Vasa? Apparently she was something of a Godsend to the Swedes - the first Princess of their reigning families in ages - and so they made something of a competition for her marriage. With her being intelligent and a scholarly Protestant, she seems to suit Edward perfectly, and she's nearly the exact right age, too - a year younger than Edward iirc. Could she work?
 
Jane Grey would be good due to the fact if she married someone else, her descendants could be a problem for the dynasty later on.

Plus she was Protestant and preferable (to Edward at least) to Mary.
 
Weren't the English more aligned to Sweden by this era? Perhaps Catherine Vasa? Apparently she was something of a Godsend to the Swedes - the first Princess of their reigning families in ages - and so they made something of a competition for her marriage. With her being intelligent and a scholarly Protestant, she seems to suit Edward perfectly, and she's nearly the exact right age, too - a year younger than Edward iirc. Could she work?
Catherine is the winner. I just can't pass her up, the shenanigans that could ensue involving her sister, if say Edward has any bit of his father in him, are just too tempting... (and from what I can tell, an alliance with England is better then an alliance with a minor German state that may or may not even exist by the time of her marriage).
 
Jane Grey would be good due to the fact if she married someone else, her descendants could be a problem for the dynasty later on.

Plus she was Protestant and preferable (to Edward at least) to Mary.

The rules have been slackened now, but at the time, Edward and Jane were technically close enough in blood for a marriage to count as incestuous. That said, some argue that that wouldn't actually stop a marriage occuring (I disagree) so you are welcome to draw your own conclusions.

Catherine is the winner. I just can't pass her up, the shenanigans that could ensue involving her sister, if say Edward has any bit of his father in him, are just too tempting... (and from what I can tell, an alliance with England is better then an alliance with a minor German state that may or may not even exist by the time of her marriage).

When I saw her I was amazed, too. Normally when such interesting and potentially influential women appear I hear about them somehow but I honestly had never heard of Catherine before I read up on her earlier. I think she would have been a really good Queen and Swedish links could potentially make for some interesting stories. It reminds me of the "Elizabeth marries Gustav Vasa" stories, too, except Catherine really never stood any chance of inheriting Sweden.
 
Jane Grey perhaps?

And I recall there was a proposed marriage OTL to a French princess. You might have to check for details on that.

Is there any possibility if Edward VI marries Jane Grey that they be crowned as Joint Monarchs? They had roughly equal claims to the crown...
 
Is there any possibility if Edward VI marries Jane Grey that they be crowned as Joint Monarchs? They had roughly equal claims to the crown...

Not really, that's not the way they did things. And Jane could not claim to have an equal claim to Edward, no way. Edward's succession from Henry VIII and from Henry VII was male-lineage - the most "pure" and unquestionable form of succession, and further than Henry VII Jane has exactly the same lineage. The fact that he came from the third marriage is irrelevant - laws have been passed repeatedly to make him the legal heir, and no-one would question that. Though Catholics would argue that Henry never legally divorced Catherine, at the time none doubted Henry's ability to name his successor, and Edward was recognised as a legitimate son by all of Europe. For that matter, when Jane Seymour married Henry, Catherine of Aragon had died and so her marriage to Henry was definitively over anyway. But anyway, back on track.

Jane had what could be considered a roughly equal claim to the throne to Elizabeth or Mary, after they had been disinherited - they had claims to the throne, but there were legal wranglings which made them both dubious and uncertain. Though there may have been a very small few who would tell Jane that they thought she had a right to be Queen, with Edward around no-one would really think his claim questionable enough to need strengthening. Even if this were the case, you would never really get a case of joint monarchs in this way as it is a tacit recognition that Henry VIII messed up in naming an heir, which none would dare do to such a respected monarch, even one who was by this stage dead. At best it would be a union of factions.

It's not so much that the law doesn't allow for it to happen but a circumstance of mindsets - joint monarchs just ask too much of those involved.
 
Firstly its important to consider Edward's own character - he was devoutly protestant closer to the European reform than that of his father and sister (what we would today consider Anglo Catholicisim for Henry and High Anglicanism for Elizabeth I and her successors) so a Catholic marriage without considerable advantage would have been unlikely.
Secondly with Edward VI you have someone who is incredibly aware of their own political status and royalty so any match that wasn't truly Royal was going to be unlikely. So forget Jane - pretty, devout and intelligent were fine in their place but she wasn't Royal by any accepted standard.
Given Edward's views you also have to accept that in any TL with him living to marry and continue his dynasty that England will be much more active on behalf of the French, Dutch and Scots Protestants than his half sister Elizabeth was (her hatred of anything that smacked of rebellion against a lawful sovereign and her penny pinching was a constant issue for her councillors).
Possibles that have so far been ignored -
Edward unlike his half sisters is undoubtedly legitimate so the claims and counter claims to the English throne become irrelevant.
With Edward supporting Scots protestant rebels in the 1550s then its far likelier that Mary of Guise won't be able to hold on to the regency and its equally debatable that any new Scots Protestant government will not wish to ratify Mary Stuarts marriage to the catholic Dauphin. Henri II might have custody of the Queen but its going to give him a major headache. In these circumstance its highly likely that the Hamiltons (heirs to the throne if the Stuart's default of issue but contested by the Earl of Lennox married to Edward's Catholic cousin Margaret) will be significant - in those circumstances Edward's government may well offer (as had been mooted by his father) the Lady Elizabeth as wife to the young Hamilton heir who is only three or four years younger than Elizabeth.
Assuming the Franco Scots alliance survives and Francis II dies as per OTL then don't discount a revival of an Edward VI Mary Stuart marriage - the Scots Government are likely to be in favour and it works to their advantage - English support for the reformation and English King who is closer to Scots Calvinism than actually happened in OTL and guarantees of a secure succession in both cases - Edward and Mary die childless then Elizabeth and James Hamilton inherit - a secure Protestant succession for both nations with the added advantage for the Scots of an absent monarch giving the Scots nobility the possibility of ruling themselves.

Under no circumstances is Edward going to permit his sister Mary Tudor to marry at home or abroad and legally she can't without his consent - despite his fondness for both his sisters Mary's catholicism was a problem for him and will continue to be. She will be a focus of dissent for anyone opposed to the continuing reformation and his council and church dislike and distrust her - she will continue to cling to her faith and will probably go down to history as a poor persecuted and unloved princess when she finally dies after several years under house arrest and several years in the tower.

Edward and Mary produce protestant children but Mary's devotion to her Catholic faith however pragmatic passes to her children who in time begin to be far more tolerant than Edward would ever have been - which leads to great distrust of the crown by some of the more devout reformist groups in England and in Scotland. Elizabeth's descendants - Dukes of Richmond in the English Peerage and Earls of Arran in the Scots peerage continue to be the nations leading family with vast wealth thanks to Elizabeth's large estates loayl to the crown but they never forget their Royal descent from Elizabeth.

That if you like is a domestic solution
 
Firstly its important to consider Edward's own character - he was devoutly protestant closer to the European reform than that of his father and sister (what we would today consider Anglo Catholicisim for Henry and High Anglicanism for Elizabeth I and her successors) so a Catholic marriage without considerable advantage would have been unlikely.
Secondly with Edward VI you have someone who is incredibly aware of their own political status and royalty so any match that wasn't truly Royal was going to be unlikely. So forget Jane - pretty, devout and intelligent were fine in their place but she wasn't Royal by any accepted standard.
Given Edward's views you also have to accept that in any TL with him living to marry and continue his dynasty that England will be much more active on behalf of the French, Dutch and Scots Protestants than his half sister Elizabeth was (her hatred of anything that smacked of rebellion against a lawful sovereign and her penny pinching was a constant issue for her councillors).
Possibles that have so far been ignored -
Edward unlike his half sisters is undoubtedly legitimate so the claims and counter claims to the English throne become irrelevant.
With Edward supporting Scots protestant rebels in the 1550s then its far likelier that Mary of Guise won't be able to hold on to the regency and its equally debatable that any new Scots Protestant government will not wish to ratify Mary Stuarts marriage to the catholic Dauphin. Henri II might have custody of the Queen but its going to give him a major headache. In these circumstance its highly likely that the Hamiltons (heirs to the throne if the Stuart's default of issue but contested by the Earl of Lennox married to Edward's Catholic cousin Margaret) will be significant - in those circumstances Edward's government may well offer (as had been mooted by his father) the Lady Elizabeth as wife to the young Hamilton heir who is only three or four years younger than Elizabeth.
Assuming the Franco Scots alliance survives and Francis II dies as per OTL then don't discount a revival of an Edward VI Mary Stuart marriage - the Scots Government are likely to be in favour and it works to their advantage - English support for the reformation and English King who is closer to Scots Calvinism than actually happened in OTL and guarantees of a secure succession in both cases - Edward and Mary die childless then Elizabeth and James Hamilton inherit - a secure Protestant succession for both nations with the added advantage for the Scots of an absent monarch giving the Scots nobility the possibility of ruling themselves.

Under no circumstances is Edward going to permit his sister Mary Tudor to marry at home or abroad and legally she can't without his consent - despite his fondness for both his sisters Mary's catholicism was a problem for him and will continue to be. She will be a focus of dissent for anyone opposed to the continuing reformation and his council and church dislike and distrust her - she will continue to cling to her faith and will probably go down to history as a poor persecuted and unloved princess when she finally dies after several years under house arrest and several years in the tower.

Edward and Mary produce protestant children but Mary's devotion to her Catholic faith however pragmatic passes to her children who in time begin to be far more tolerant than Edward would ever have been - which leads to great distrust of the crown by some of the more devout reformist groups in England and in Scotland. Elizabeth's descendants - Dukes of Richmond in the English Peerage and Earls of Arran in the Scots peerage continue to be the nations leading family with vast wealth thanks to Elizabeth's large estates loayl to the crown but they never forget their Royal descent from Elizabeth.

That if you like is a domestic solution
Well that was a very good analysis, and I really don't want to sound dismissive because I do appreciate the work you like put into that, but as I've said, Catherine Vasa is the winner.
 
Interesting to note is that negotiations between Edward and Gustav will probalby go faster than those between Edzard and Gustav (North Sea permitting) because the principle hiccup the Ostfrieslanders had with the marriage was Swedish domination, which will not be a valid case with England.
 
Fair enough but you are going to have to create the right circumstances for it and an improvement in relations between England and northern Europe to make it a possibility. England's relationships with Europe in the later half of Henry VIII's reign had been disastrous - Henry (and to a lesser extent due to the brevity to his reign Edward VI) saw themselves as major players on a par with France and the Empire - marriage to the daughter of a Swedish King doesn't give Edward any political advantage at all. A protestant german or dane might have more advantage and there by might be more likely. But I am intrigued how you get a Anglo Swedish Alliance between 1555 and 1560.


Well that was a very good analysis, and I really don't want to sound dismissive because I do appreciate the work you like put into that, but as I've said, Catherine Vasa is the winner.
 
Fair enough but you are going to have to create the right circumstances for it and an improvement in relations between England and northern Europe to make it a possibility. England's relationships with Europe in the later half of Henry VIII's reign had been disastrous - Henry (and to a lesser extent due to the brevity to his reign Edward VI) saw themselves as major players on a par with France and the Empire - marriage to the daughter of a Swedish King doesn't give Edward any political advantage at all. A protestant german or dane might have more advantage and there by might be more likely. But I am intrigued how you get a Anglo Swedish Alliance between 1555 and 1560.

I don't see why it should be so hard. But who said anything about an Anglo-Swedish alliance? Since when did royal marriages imply alliances? If that were the case, about half of England's royal marriages in its history just wouldn't make logical sense at all.

England, and Edward, wanted a foreign marriage to show off their strength, yes, and they wanted a Protestant state to marry in with to show their colours and to strengthen their position diplomatically. But Henry had already closed off the avenue of a German marriage for the time being, leading to frosty relations with the Lutherans. On top of this, the English church really wasn't *that* Lutheran. The Danes, on the other hand, were, and were very much in the German camp. The Swedes had, similarly to England, divorced themselves from Rome in a disjointed manner, essentially giving themselves a native version of Catholicism with some bits snipped off and the Pope removed. Religion-wise, Sweden and England suited each other well. In addition, Sweden was coming out of a quiet era of its existence and was casting out feelers for alliances. One state they wouldn't be allying was Denmark, because of the long-standing rivalry between them, which kind of rules out Germany for them too. They had a hot-and-cold relationship with the states around the Baltics, desiring them as they did, but none of them were Protestant anyway, save for the Livonians...and there wasn't much room for marriage there since the Livonians went and gave the throne of the new secularised Prussian state to a German. Really, England was their best port of call. England's growing naval stature (despite the Mary Rose fiasco) lended itself well also to the Swedes' naval conflicts with the Danes. If they ever wanted to ask someone to try to join forces for a naval assault on the Sund, they could do worse than England. And on top of this, they've just got a royal princess of marriageable age for the first time in 200 years, so they can afford to let countries come to them. Really, Sweden has every reason to turn to England.
 
On top of this, the English church really wasn't *that* Lutheran. The Danes, on the other hand, were, and were very much in the German camp.

On religion yes, Denmark-Norway was very much Lutheran but politically it was NOT in the German camp.
It certainly wouldn't like being part of the HREGN but maintaining a few buffer-states in the North of Germany was a nice thing.
Have a look at the Schmalkaldic league - Denmark tried to be a champion but the German princes certainly didn't want another royal to be their superior! Getting rid of the Emperor was one thing staying out of the Danish sphere another!
 
On religion yes, Denmark-Norway was very much Lutheran but politically it was NOT in the German camp.
It certainly wouldn't like being part of the HREGN but maintaining a few buffer-states in the North of Germany was a nice thing.
Have a look at the Schmalkaldic league - Denmark tried to be a champion but the German princes certainly didn't want another royal to be their superior! Getting rid of the Emperor was one thing staying out of the Danish sphere another!

Huh? Since when was the Schmalkaldic War about getting rid of the Emperor? I studied the Schmalkaldic League in A-level history and never found anything to suggest it was anything other than a defensive alliance. I have a tendency to directly disbelieve statements saying things such as that, as they smack of applying modern-day standards and mindsets to historical settings. Do you have a quote to prove this assertion?

And my idea wasn't that Denmark wanted to become the leader of the Protestants - whether it did or not is beside the point. It was that Denmark still thought of itself as close to the Germans, politically, anyway. I mean, over the next 100 years or so, the Danes often come back to get involved in Central European wars with the Germans and thereabouts. England, on the other hand, just turned its back on Germany as soon as the Cleves marriage failed, and Sweden had no interest there until the 30 years war.
 
And my idea wasn't that Denmark wanted to become the leader of the Protestants - whether it did or not is beside the point. It was that Denmark still thought of itself as close to the Germans, politically, anyway. I mean, over the next 100 years or so, the Danes often come back to get involved in Central European wars with the Germans and thereabouts.

That is some other statement than

The Danes, on the other hand, were, and were very much in the German camp.

and whatever was meant by that.

And really they wouldn't be able to think of anything else - common border and such!
 
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