I have some idea for a TL, but I need some help....

Good luck with that...

Didn't Constantinople have some farming area inside its outer walls or something? And you still have to deal with the Byzantine navy...

Okay, maybe I will still going to have break the walls a fairly bit but the navy will be f****d up by the previous chaotic civil war, which is why the Arab navy will be having much more fun in dealing with them in their way to Constantinople ITTL. Ruin the navy, consolidate Anatolia, THEN Constantinople can be conquered....

The thing is really about how to make that civil war..... I'm thinking of using the death of Constans II in Armenia when he was dealing with Rshtuni there... What will be the immediate effect of this afterwards ?
 
The thing is really about how to make that civil war..... I'm thinking of using the death of Constans II in Armenia when he was dealing with Rshtuni there... What will be the immediate effect of this afterwards ?
Coupla different things. Rshtuni may be able to command an element of support among the Armenian portions of the army. The dynasty is Armenian as well after all and they may have connexions. Yennadios in Africa will probably continue with nominal loyalty to whatever government gets set up around Konstantinos IV at Constantinople (the Regents will probably be Fausta, his mother, who has some knowledge of intrigue due to the circumstances surrounding her father Valentinos' deposition of Heraklonas; Maurianos, Rshtuni's old opponent; and some other military officers and bureaucrats). As soon as any civil war starts in earnest, though, he will break off. He's got plenty of cash on hand and thus will be able to survive on his own in southern Italy, Sicily, and North Africa quite ably. In addition, he will be able to take in losing armies from the civil war to boost his manpower, further improving his odds at repelling the Arabs.

You can pretty much fashion the course of the civil war however you like. This particular period of history is not well documented, and the motivations of many of the players subordinate to Konstas II at this time IOTL are not very clear. Konstas II's brother Theodosios was executed IOTL 661 on possibly spurious charges of conspiracy, and it's up in the air whether he entertained designs on the throne for himself. He's a player, and could side with either the regency or whatever Rshtuni and the rest of the pro-Arab party can get together. Nikephoros Patrikios, a competent but not brilliant military commander, was largely loyal to the line of Herakleios and would probably side with the regency council. Then, of course, there are the Arabs, led by their military commander (but not khalifa yet) Mu'awiyah, who himself is quite able. They are probably the strongest of any of the competing groups, but also the most dispersed, the most prone to revolts, and the most distracted. They will also need to deal with the fallout of Uthman's death whenever it comes ITTL, because 'Ali and Mu'awiyah will probably still end up in their showdown for mastery of the ummah.

Hope that helps somewhat, sorry for not responding sooner. :)
 
Coupla different things. Rshtuni may be able to command an element of support among the Armenian portions of the army. The dynasty is Armenian as well after all and they may have connexions. Yennadios in Africa will probably continue with nominal loyalty to whatever government gets set up around Konstantinos IV at Constantinople (the Regents will probably be Fausta, his mother, who has some knowledge of intrigue due to the circumstances surrounding her father Valentinos' deposition of Heraklonas; Maurianos, Rshtuni's old opponent; and some other military officers and bureaucrats). As soon as any civil war starts in earnest, though, he will break off. He's got plenty of cash on hand and thus will be able to survive on his own in southern Italy, Sicily, and North Africa quite ably. In addition, he will be able to take in losing armies from the civil war to boost his manpower, further improving his odds at repelling the Arabs.

You can pretty much fashion the course of the civil war however you like. This particular period of history is not well documented, and the motivations of many of the players subordinate to Konstas II at this time IOTL are not very clear. Konstas II's brother Theodosios was executed IOTL 661 on possibly spurious charges of conspiracy, and it's up in the air whether he entertained designs on the throne for himself. He's a player, and could side with either the regency or whatever Rshtuni and the rest of the pro-Arab party can get together. Nikephoros Patrikios, a competent but not brilliant military commander, was largely loyal to the line of Herakleios and would probably side with the regency council. Then, of course, there are the Arabs, led by their military commander (but not khalifa yet) Mu'awiyah, who himself is quite able. They are probably the strongest of any of the competing groups, but also the most dispersed, the most prone to revolts, and the most distracted. They will also need to deal with the fallout of Uthman's death whenever it comes ITTL, because 'Ali and Mu'awiyah will probably still end up in their showdown for mastery of the ummah.

Hope that helps somewhat, sorry for not responding sooner. :)

Hmmm....

I just don't know where to start. It seems to me that the civil war after Konstans II will be pretty much a certainty but however it will result in a stronger challenger for the Caliphate expansion into North Africa, which I don't think this would help on my plan in making the whole Mediterranian Sea a total Islamic lake ITTL. Or unless that will only just slow the Arabs for a time.... But does it really mean I have to consider butterflying away Qayrawan ? My my, a tough choice.... :(

More and more apparent to me now that I have to consider many things. I really can't see I can only focus to only ERE now, for I think this option seem to me as will going to have interesting effects on Mu'awiyah's life beyond....
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Okay, maybe I will still going to have break the walls a fairly bit but the navy will be f****d up by the previous chaotic civil war, which is why the Arab navy will be having much more fun in dealing with them in their way to Constantinople ITTL. Ruin the navy, consolidate Anatolia, THEN Constantinople can be conquered....

Won't matter, the grain is coming from Crimea, and the Golden Horn is relative easy to close off. So to starve them out is not realistic, simply because the Arabic army will die of starvation first.

Beside how do they conquer the rest of the Empire after the fall of Constatinoble, after the fall in 1204 several succesor states was created, you need to tell us how you deal with them. This isn't 1453 where a highly organised and powerful state ended a small dying statelet, this is a attack against a highly organised, powerful and easy defendable empire by bunch of oppotunistic raiders. I don't say that it's impossible, but you need more than just wave your hand. I hope you find a realistic way.
 
1) Won't matter, the grain is coming from Crimea, and the Golden Horn is relative easy to close off. So to starve them out is not realistic, simply because the Arabic army will die of starvation first.

2) Beside how do they conquer the rest of the Empire after the fall of Constatinoble, after the fall in 1204 several succesor states was created, you need to tell us how you deal with them. This isn't 1453 where a highly organised and powerful state ended a small dying statelet, this is a attack against a highly organised, powerful and easy defendable empire by bunch of oppotunistic raiders. I don't say that it's impossible, but you need more than just wave your hand. I hope you find a realistic way.

1) I've already refrained from going with the starvation route. Though thanks for pointing out about Taurican grains. :)

2) As for Greece and Balkans, after acquiring Constantinople I don't think it will be hard. I'm more concerned about North Africa though, based on Wednesday's point that North Africa might end up harder for the Arabs to conquer ITTL. I know how advanced ERE was compared to the first Caliphate back then, that's why I'm currently figuring out how to eliminate an overwhelming part of the empire's military strength before the siege of Constantinople...
 
Top