I AM NOT MAD [A Radical Enlightened Denmark-Norway]

[Zillian]

Also you said “your Danes”, you aren’t Danish yourself, that surprise me with the degree of details in the timeline.

It may be a formulation error. I am Danish and have living in Copenhagen for years.

But it also raise the question, how do plan to expand the city?

I would follow around the OTL route with an expansion of the Naval Base and reclaiming the Refshaleøen. Christianshavn can also be expanding a bit to create the OTL Appleby plads and King Christian VII would also have an option to redevelop the Old Town and the Castle Isle when the Copenhagen Fire of 1795 hit the city

[1] the rectangular lakes are artificial and meant as a source of water to the moat

Those artificial lakes are also the source of drinking water in Copenhagen and I am afraid with a new moat connecting the lake to sea would salting the lake to a point where it becomes undrinkable.
For a new expansion, as I wrote about in the first chapter, I wanted to create a free port and it would be around at Nordhavn.

Something like this

What do you think?

 

[Jürgen]

It may be a formulation error. I am Danish and have living in Copenhagen for years.

Well I also found it surprising.

I would follow around the OTL route with an expansion of the Naval Base and reclaiming the Refshaleøen. Christianshavn can also be expanding a bit to create the OTL Appleby plads and King Christian VII would also have an option to redevelop the Old Town and the Castle Isle when the Copenhagen Fire of 1795 hit the city

refshaleøen sounds like a great idea, I would say that Copenhagen needs room more than redevelopment. But redevelopment could serve to help making Copenhagen a healthier city.

Those artificial lakes are also the source of drinking water in Copenhagen and I am afraid with a new moat connecting the lake to sea would salting the lake to a point where it becomes undrinkable.

No I suggested making new lakes further inland at Pile Allé, not connecting them to the ocean

For a new expansion, as I wrote about in the first chapter, I wanted to create a free port and it would be around at Nordhavn.

Something like this

What do you think?

I think it’s a excellent idea.

 

[arctic warrior]

About Ama'r - here's a 1728 map

and a 1730 one

may be of help to you.

Last one's from this site http://www.lokalhistorier.dk/Kort_over_Amager/Historiske_Kort_over_Amager/ which also have a 1758 one.

 

[Zillian]

Chapter 13: Family Schimmelmann

Danish West Indies General-Governor (1784-1787) Heinrich Ludwig Ernst von Schimmelmann

The Danish West Indies was in chaos as its economy had all but collapsed. For many years, its main exporter was the British North America and at the same time dependent on slave labour. Furthermore, when it came to supplies of timber and tobacco, it was far more economically to import these and other goods from the American colonies and pay them with sugar and rum rather than importing and exporting at Copenhagen. With the outbreak of war in North America and the flourished slave trade, the Danish West Indies had quickly come into deficit.

Saint Croix was the valuable sugar island, whose production were governed by legislation and carefully protected by the West Indies Interest and General Custom Chamber in Copenhagen, whose did not want to let the American rebels and its allied to sailing under the Danish flag via the Danish Virgin Islands, thereby throwing a dangerous suspicion on the legitimate Danish sugar production that had cost so much to build. In stark contrast, the College of Commerce and trade wanted to use Saint Thomas, whose sugar production was insignificant, as a neutral shipping port for the rebels and its allied to sailing under the Danish flag with Danish cargo papers and under the guise of pro forma citizenship on the neutral islands for as long as the war lasts. Afterall the Port of Charlotte Amalie was one of the Caribbean’s best ports.

Not enough with this conflicted interest between the two administration’s important colleges which would play a role during the war between the American rebels and its motherland, the regulation on the Negro trade of 1771 had also forced the plantation owner to buy up female slaves to establish a self-producing slave class. The end of the trade relationship with the American colonies and the acquisition of slaves quick become an expensive business for the Danish West Indies colony.

A second disaster arrived when the immigrated Danish proletariats, whose should replace the black slaves, started to die off in droves due to tropical diseases. The Danish West Indies general-governor Peter Clausen was forced to stop the immigration from Denmark and slow down the slave trade to avoid bankrupt to great protest from the plantation owners. The waters were now also threated by American privateers and hostile British inspectors to a point where Peter Clausen asked the Danish government to send over the fleet to protect the islands.

Worst of all, the piracy activity on Snake Island and Crab Island had rose up again in the wake of the American rebellion and dispute the trade around the Virgin Islands. Despite the Spanish claim on the two islands, they had never been under Spanish control and had been a refuge for pirates and outlaws. In 1780, a new disaster hit the Danish West Indies when all trade relations with Spain, Holland, France and the American rebels had ended.

Back in Denmark, King Christian VII had summoned the Knighthood of Schleswig-Holstein to Kiel for solve the Gottorp Question with his German vassals. The Knighthood was strongly discontented with the Treaty of Vienna which the Duchies was both de facto and de jura incorporated into Denmark and the displeased German nobilities dusted off the age old Treaty of Ribe from 1460 which stated the two duchies may never been separated from each other nor may the duchies being annexing into the Danish crown. The former case had been broken when the duchies was divided for first time in 1544 and the latter case also broken with the recent Treaty of Vienna. King Christian VII stated he had done his obligations to the knighthood by re-unified the duchies. One of the knights suggested the King and the knighthood to melding the duchies to a new kingdom in union with the Danish crown and a legislative like the Icelandic parliament Althing.

By incorporating the duchies safety into the Danish-Norwegian crown, no matter what the knighthood says, had allowed King Christian VII to issue a cabinet order to establishing a canal across the Jutland peninsula along the river Elbe to compete with the nearby Stecknitz Canal for merchant traffic and to connect the important merchant city of Altona with the Danish waters and the Baltic Sea. This route would also be shorter and less storm-prone than navigating around the Jutland peninsula. A commission formed by Minister of Finance Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann and the stadtholder of Schleswig-Holstein Carl von Hessen was appointed to build the canal.

Originally, the commission wanted to build the canal as cheap as possible but with the Land reform, the Danish treasure was bigger, and a large growing group of proletariat streamed after employment. Of this reason, the commission decided to dig a canal from Rendsburg and towards the Bay of Meldorf. The Bay of Meldorf as entrance to the new canal would prove to be advantageous and easily defended by placed land forts in each end of the bay and one sea fort on the island of Trischen directly across from the bay.

The excavated earth would be used to secure the Bay of Meldorf against storm surge and rest would be sent to Copenhagen, used to expanding and reclaimed more land for the naval base as well create that free port Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann had dreamed about. With the creation of a free port north of the Citadel would leads to an increasing in trade and thus a richer city. When the Royal Naval Base had been expanding, then the naval bases at Castle Isle and Old Isle could be moved out to its new location and the Old Isle would be open for redeveloping into a residential area.

Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann calculated the construction of the canal would take over 9,000 workers and eight years to complete. If possibilities allowed it, a new fortification at the Holstein-Hannover border would be recommend as well strengthening of the Danevirke fortification.

 

[arctic warrior]

Well done that man!
About Dannevirke - its a dud; well soon becoming one due to better firearms. The fortificationline should go a little more south in the east connecting to the Selk Nor. That way you get the Kongshøj hills in the area south of the old wall become part of fortifications. Something that was missing during 1848 and -64; with the range of gunpowder weapons of the day and age nobody thought about it untill too late.
The new proposed fortifications look a lot like the 1813 main line prior to the campaign. Was that your source?

 

[Zillian]

thank

The new proposed fortifications look a lot like the 1813 main line prior to the campaign. Was that your source?

Was it? That line on the above map is just what I put at random for the sake of aesthetic. When or if I eventually should including the proposal fortification in a battle map during the Napoleon campaign against Denmark-Norway I will drawing it up somewhat more accurate but then I would eventual move the fortification to Stecknitz Canal as Denmark and England would be allied at that time with both Hamburg and Lübeck within Danish sphere of influence.

 

[Zillian]

Chapter 14: Earl David Murrary

Earl David Murray of Mansfield and Viscount of Stormont.

The war between Britain and the American rebels and their allied, France, did not change the political position of Denmark-Norway. The kingdom was Russian’s client state and Sweden were the main rival and the only threat to its territorial integrity. Denmark-Norway had also managed to assert its position as the strongest naval power in the Baltic Sea while at the same time have two small colonial fleet, one in West Indies and one in the Gold Coast as well a small task force in the Danish colonies at India. The Danish-Russian alliance had therefor certain possibilities for Denmark-Norway in pursuing an active neutrality policy in understanding with Saint Petersburg.

The initiative for this came from Russia. Catharine the Great at 28 August 1778 suggested that the spring of 1779, Danish and Russian squadrons of warships would patrol North Sea to protect shipping north of Norway. The project itself was against Danish interests as it only would benefit Great Britain, but Bernstorff saw it as an opportunity for a higher Danish-Russian neutrality cooperation. He responded at 28 September and agreed to the proposal including providing a convoy of neutral ships to Norwegian and Russian ports. However to further secure shipping, he suggested the two government together exercise their influence in London to get Great Britain to recognise the Danish neutrality principles.

With this counterproposal, Bernstorff set up an offensive neutrality policy, but the decision lay in Saint Petersburg and the prime minister needed to wait a long time. The war of Bavarian Succession broken out in 3 July 1778 and last almost one year. Russia was forced to step into the war by diplomatic means as a guarantee for German peace in Europe and tried to avoid a large European war. Of this reason Catharine was busy with this major political situation and respond Bernstorff first at 13 February 1779 with a refusal to this armed neutrality. At the same time, Bernstorff had refused a French-inspired Swedish attempt on an armed neutrality. Denmark now had to follow Catharine’s call to equip squadrons to keeping sea off their coasts free from privateers and stood completely isolated in its neutrality policy but an unexpected surprised was just around the corner.

The war in North America had entered the third year and Great Britain went to great lengths to achieve a military alliance with Russia. The relationship between the two great power was gowned by a trade treaty from 1734 and renewed in 1766. Since then, attempts to conclude a political treaty had fallen on Great Britain rejected Russia’s demand for British support in the event of a war with Ottomans. In 1778, Britain made a new attempt and accepted Russia’s demand for an eventual support against Ottomans, but this time Catherine the Great was dismissive. She saw a possibility that Russia could act as the mighty mediator between the two Western powers, but time worked against her.

American rebels attempted to persuade Spain to declare an open alliance with the fledgling United States but the Spain refused, as the moment for a Spanish entrance into the war had yet to arrive but the Spanish-Portuguese war had just ended in 1 October 1777 and the Treaty of El Pardo signed in 11 March 1778 while the Spanish treasure fleet had just arrived at the Spanish ports. Great Britain knew the Spanish empire would enter the war on the side with the American rebels soon or later and the Danish-Norwegian navy became strategically interesting and she proved to be right as Spain joined France and the Americans with the Treaty of Aranjuez signed in April 1779.

The military balance at sea changed dramatically with the united Spanish-French navy became more powerful than the large Royal navy. The new Secretary of State for the Northern Department, Lord Stormont, sent a proposal in late November to Prime Minister Bernstorff for a defensive alliance with Denmark-Norway and British guarantee of the Danish West Indies and a renegotiation of the Danish-English treaty of 1670 in return for a fleet at last 12 ship of the line with associated frigates that should be equipped as early as spring 1780 and loaned it to Great Britain for 10 years.

Prime Minister Bernstorff was stunned by this proposal but recovering as he personal welcomed this request of an alliance. However, the Prime Minister pointed out the risk of Denmark-Norway forming an alliance in the midst of a war, and that Great Britain itself was so hard-pressed that it could not protect the Danish-Norwegian merchantmen. He promised to present this proposal to the Privy Council.

It was not surprise that both King Christian VII and Queen Caroline Matilde supported Bernstorff in forming an alliance with Great Britain as the Royal Couple wanted to support their relative, King George III, against the American rebels but the only one who spoked up against this alliance was the Minister of Finance Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann. Heinrich Carl pointed out that if Denmark-Norway handed Great Britain a squadron of that size, it would have to equip the rest of its fleet as a safeguard against hostilities from Sweden. From there, the discussion moved on to the significant economic demands that Denmark-Norway had to make not only for financing the equipment, but also for subsidies for ten years after the war. For now, the construction of the Schleswig-Holstein Canal and the expansion of the Royal Naval Base at Copenhagen had to be put on hold during the war if Denmark-Norway forming an alliance with Great Britain. Under these conditions, Bernstorff sent a note of acceptance to Great Britain and another note to Russian and urge Catharine the Great to mediate a peace between the belligerents.

Lord Stormont, who continued to hope for a positive reaction in Saint Petersburg to the British alliance proposal, authorised the British envoy in Copenhagen Sir Morton Eden in early February 1780 to accept the Danish-Norwegian demands and continue the negotiations. Bernstorff knew that the British Envoy in Saint Petersburg had got rejected his alliance officer on 20 January and Sir Morton Eden was unaware of this. Of that reason Bernstorff forced the negotiation forward and asked Morton Eden to including a renegotiation of the Treaty of Breda from 1667 as well. Furthermore, he also asked Sir Eden to support Denmark-Norway in combating the piracy in Virgin Island and stated that it not only disputed the Danish trade but also the British trade in the area.

Despite not knowing the content of the Treaty of Breda, Sir Morton Eden went along and added it to the proposed treaty of alliance as Great Britain was desperate to get the Danish-Norwegian fleet at all cost. Sir Eden also promised Bernstorff that Britain would help Denmark-Norway in suppress piracy in Virgin Islands. At Friday 17th March 1780, a treaty of alliance between Great Britain and Denmark-Norway was signed and two squadron of warships was sent over to London follow by a declaration of war against France. One squadron to Great Britain as stated in the treaty and a smaller one to be send over to Danish West Indies to suppress the piracy activity.

In Saint Petersburg, Catherine the Great approved the Danish-British alliance but demanded that Denmark-Norway should still uphold its own treaty of 1769 with Russia and respond hers call to arms in the case of a Swedish attack and furthermore helping her in protecting the shipping north of Norway during the war as well respect her newly formed League of Armed Neutrality. At that time, relationship between Copenhagen and Saint Petersburg was at sky-high and Catherine the Great could see the Danish-Norwegian military had grew in size the last 10 year and the government in Denmark was stable despite have a mad king at the helm. Of this reason, she didn’t mind that Denmark-Norway pursue its own interest and having a strong realm in the Baltic Sea as a counterweight against Sweden was also in hers best interest.


The Treaty of Copenhagen 1780

· Defence alliance between Denmark-Norway and Great Britain

· British guarantee of the Danish West Indies

· Supporting Denmark-Norway in combating the piracy in Virgin Islands.

· Loan a squadron of 12 Ship of the Line and associated frigates to Great Britain for 10 years

· Renegotiated the Trade Treaty of 1670 and the Treaty of Breda from 1667


[Note1] The government was at that time in OTL controlled by the Hereditary Prince Frederick of Denmark, his mother Juliana Maria and his tutor Ove Høegh-Guldberg with Christian VII reduced to a puppet. All three was anti-Britain and pro-Russia and chose to appeasing Catherine the Great by join her League of Armed Neutrality - which ultimately lead to the English-Danish wars in 1801-1814 resulting in bankrupting and lose of Norway. Bernstorff was the only minister who was pro-Britain and when he continued with his appeasing with Great Britain, he was fired. Here in TTL, the government was controlled by King Christian VII, Queen Caroline Matilde and Prime Minister Bernstorff who all three was pro-britain.

[Note2] The relationship between Russia and Denmark-Norway was in OTL very low due to instability in the government of Struensee and the government of Guldberg and the Danish-Norway military was in fact reduced by Struensee. Here in TTL, Catherine the Great liked Berndorff and his very stable government with a reformed Danish-Norway military who continue to grown in size.

 

[arctic warrior]

the only one who spoked up against this alliance was the Minister of Finance Heinrich Carl von Schimmelmann. Heinrich Carl pointed out that if Denmark-Norway handed Great Britain a squadron of that size, it would have to equip the rest of its fleet as a safeguard against hostilities from Sweden.

As you wrote the Danish-Norwegian Navy got enlarged to 40 ships of the line and 20 frigates earlier this makes this OTL protest invalid as the D-N Navy would lease 12 SoL and some 6 frigates? to the British; mobilize another 12 SoL and 6 frigates for home duty; keep 12 SoL and 6 frigates in reserve and possibly fit out 4 SoL and 2 frigates for a squadron to patrol Caribbean waters.

Quite possible given the OTL Danish reluctance to equip substantial forces only to spend the money once war had been entered more or less losing in the end..
Now let Prince Carl of Hesse aquaint himself with the Army in S-H and the terrain so Denmarks prepared for the arrival of M. Napoleon or whatever You have in store for us.

 

[arctic warrior]

Was it? That line on the above map is just what I put at random for the sake of aesthetic.

Great minds and all that!

 

[Zillian]

As you wrote the Danish-Norwegian Navy got enlarged to 40 ships of the line and 20 frigates earlier this makes this OTL protest invalid as the D-N Navy would lease 12 SoL and some 6 frigates? to the British; mobilize another 12 SoL and 6 frigates for home duty; keep 12 SoL and 6 frigates in reserve and possibly fit out 4 SoL and 2 frigates for a squadron to patrol Caribbean waters.

Maybe I should have wrote "almost whole fleet" but as he is the Minister of Finance, he need to protest each time the King or Berndorff want to use money especially when Denmark have a ongoing building project

 

[Zillian]

Chapter 15: Battle of the Chesapeake

A Naval Battle between French and British/Danish fleet at Chesapeake Bay, 5 September 1781

Together with the squadron of 12 Ship of Lines and 6 Frigate, Denmark-Norway had decided to send the only naval officer who had seen action in a naval battle to join the British Royal Navy. Indeed the newly promoted Rear Admiral Frederik Christian Kaas who was the leading officer in the punitive expedition against the Barbary state of Algeria and won it in 1770. Great Britain decided to send Frederik Christian’s squadron over to North America for patrolling and blockade duty with New York City as his base of operation in spring of 1780.

During the early month of 1781, both British loyalist and American rebel forces began to concentrate in Virginia. In late May, General Charles, Earl Cornwallis, arrived from south in late May with his army to take command. In June Cornwallis marched to Williamsburg, where he received a confusing series of orders from General Sir Henry Clinton that culminated in a directive to establish a fortified deep-water port. Of this reason, Cornwallis moved to Yorktown in late July, where his army began to building fortifications. The presence of the British army, coupled with General Clinton’s desire for a port there, made control of the Chesapeake Bay an essential naval objective for both sides.

On the 21st of May, the Rebel General George Washington and the French general Comte de Rochambeau, respectively the commanders of the Continental Army and Special Expedition Force, met to discuss potential operations against the British and Loyalists. They considered either an assault or siege on the British base at New York City or operations against the British forces in Virginia. Since either of these operations would require the assistance of the French fleet, a ship was dispatched to meet with the French Rear Admiral François Joseph Paul, Comte de Grasse, who were at the West Indies, but Comte de Rochambeau had in a private note stated he preferred an operation against Virginia.

De Grasse receive the envoy on 15 August and immediately dispatched towards Chesapeake with 3,200 troops and his entire fleet on 28 ships of the line. Sailing outside the normal shipping lanes to avoid notice, he arrived at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay on 30 August and disembarked the troops to assist in the land blockade of Yorktown and the army of General Cornwallis. Unfortunately, one Danish-Norwegian frigate on patrol discovered the French fleet and quickly dispatched to alert Rear Admiral Frederik Christian Kaas in New York City.

British Admiral George Brydges Rodney, who had been tracking Comte de Grasse around the West Indies, was alerted to the latter’s departure, but was uncertain of the French admiral’s destination. Rodney detached Rear Admiral Sir Samuel Hood with 14 ships of the line to find Comte de Grass’s destination in North America.

Sailing more directly than Comte de Grasse, Hood’s fleet arrived off the entrance to the Chesapeake on 25 August, five days before Comte de Grasse arriving to the bay. Finding no French ships there, he then sailed for New York. Arrived at New York, he found that both British Rear Admiral Sir Thomas Graves and Danish-Norwegian Rear Admiral vas in port. Only five of Graves’s ships of the line were ready for battle but Frederik Christian and his squadron of 12 ship of the line and 6 frigates were ready for battle.

Comte de notified his counterpart in Newport at Rhode Island, Comte de Barras Saint-Laurent, of his intentions and his planned arrival date. Barras sailed from Newport on 27 August with 8 ship of the line, 4 frigates, and 18 transports carrying French armaments and siege equipment. He deliberately sailed via a circuitous route in order to minimise the possibility of an encounter with the British and Danish-Norwegian, should they sail from New York in pursuit, but the admiral never reached the bay in time. Washington and Rochambeau, in the meantime, had crossed the Hudson on 24 August, leaving some troops behind as a ruse to delay any potential move on the part of General Clinton to mobilise assistance for Cornwallis.

By 31 August, the Danish-Norwegian frigate who had been at patrol near Chesapeake Bay, arrived at New York City and notified the admirals at the city about the present of a French force in Chesapeake consisted by 28 ships of the line. This led to Graves moved his five ships of line and Christian Frederik’s squadron out of New York Harbour to meet with Hood’s force. Taking command of the combined fleet, now 31 ships of the line and 6 frigates, Rear Admiral sailed south, and arrived at the mouth of the Chesapeake on 5 September. Despite the poor condition of some of Grave’s ships, Christian Frederik’s unexperienced squadron was of a fresh condition.

French and British/Danish patrol frigates each spotted the other’s fleet in the morning and Rear Admiral Graves praise their luck in that the intelligence had overestimated the size of the French fleet which only had 24 ships of the line defending the entrance to Chesapeake Bay. He directed his 31 ships of the line toward the bay’s mouth, assisted by winds from the north-northeast.

Comte de Grasse had detached a few of his ships to blockade the York and James Rivers farther up at the bay, and many of his ships were missing officers, men and boats when the British-Danish fleet was sighted. He faced the difficult proposition of organising a line of battle while sailing against an incoming tide, with winds and land features working against him.

At 11:30 AM, 24 ships of the line of the French fleet cut their anchor lines and began sailing out of the bay with the noon tide, leaving behind the shore contingents and ships’ boats. Some ships were so seriously undermanned, that not all of their guns could be manned. Comte de Grasse had ordered the ships to form into a line as they exited the bay, in order of speed and without regard to its normal sailing order.

By 1:00 AM, the two fleets were roughly facing each other, but sailing on opposite tacks. In order to engage, and to avoid some shoals near the mouth of the bay, Admiral Graves ordered his whole fleet to wear one hour later, a manoeuvre that reversed his line of battle, but enabled it to line up with the French fleet as its ships exited the bay. This placed the squadron of Hood at the rear of the line, Christian Frederik in the centre and that of Admiral Francis Samuel Drake in the van.

At this point, both fleets were sailing generally east, away from the Bay, with winds from the north-northeast. The two lines were approaching at an angle so that the leading ships of the vans of both lines were within range of each other, while the ships at the rear were too far apart to engage. The French had a firing advantage and in a better state of repair than the British fleet, but the British fleet outnumbered the French in the number of ships and total guns while the Danish squadron was at an excellent state of repair.

By 3:00 PM, the gap between the ships in the French squadron in van was large enough to that the British fleet could cut it off from the rest of the French fleet. That advantage took Christian Frederik who sailed in and cut it, which forced Admiral Hood to close in that grape, Christian Frederik left, leading the British rear squadron to engage the French rear squadron. Christian Frederik’s squadron turned around and sailed down at the French centre and rear squadrons towards the bay. This time, Christian Frederik had firing advantage.

It was about 4:00 PM the British had an advantageous position and therefor the initiative to open their attack. Both van of the fleet was fully engaged while the French centre and rear was exposed from both sides. As many of French ships were undermanned, they could not fire at the British rear squadron and Christian Frederik’s squadron at the same time.

Around 5:00 PM the wind began to shift, to British disadvantage but if the shift in wind was an advantage to the French fleet, then it was also an advantage to Christian Frederik’s squadron. That could the French fleet not survive and took a heavy beating. Sunset brought an end to the firefight, with both fleet continuing on a roughly southeast tack, away from the bay while Christian Frederik’s squadron sailed towards it.

In the evening, Admiral Graves did a damage assessment and noted that the French fleet had took a heavy damage and the British fleet not so much. He maintained a windward position through the night, so he would have the choice of battle in morning. When the morning arrives, they saw the French fleet had escaped from the battle. He decided to return to Chesapeake Bay and regroup with Christian Frederik. From there, the victorious British-Danish fleet stand guard at the bay and awaiting on a possible arrival of a regrouped French fleet while one small task force entered the bay to break the blockade in York and James rivers while prove support to Yorktown and General Cornwallis.


[Note1] Much of the text are copied from the Wikipedia article of same name and then modified to suit my timeline

 

[Jürgen]

A few thoughts the Dutch lost territories to the British ARW, so we could see Denmark gaining some from them.

Denmark was in its own colonial war at the time on the Gold Coast, we could see the Danes gaining the Dutch Cold Coast.

Other potential gain:

Guiana, of course with the end of slavery Denmark would likely have to import labour from India and East Asia to work there (high likelihood).

The Cape Colony if Denmark want a stopover for trading with East Asia (low likelihood).

Dutch colonies in East Asia, I would say Sri Lanka would likely be the best possible gain (very low likelihood).

If Denmark stay closely allied with the English Denmark may also a chance some of them later after the French occupation of Netherlands.

Longer terms thought if Denmark end up on the British side in the Napoleonic War, we would likely see a loss of the Jutish peninsula and maybe Funen. We will likely see France set up a Republic or Kingdom there and call it Cimbria (it will likely be annexed by France in 1810 together with the north west German coastline). This may be a blessing in disguise, as I could see the influx of new know how to such a state and likely the creation of a lot of new infrastructure (I could also see improvement in the school system, maybe even a Danish language school system), to enable the French to move transport away from the coast, as example we could see sugar beats being introduced earlier. I suspect that Flensburg would be made its capital, through Ribe and Viborg would be obvious alternatives for historical and defensive reasons.

With a Denmark on British side in the Napoleonic we would likely see a lot of British investment especially in Norway, as a Norwegian timbe4 would likely be seen as important. If Denmark have regained Scania we will likely see a lot of development there while Jutland are occupied. In many ways it’s excellent place for early water mill industrialization, especially with Copenhagen so close as market for their products.

 

[Zillian]

Longer terms thought if Denmark end up on the British side in the Napoleonic War, we would likely see a loss of the Jutish peninsula and maybe Funen. We will likely see France set up a Republic or Kingdom there and call it Cimbria (it will likely be annexed by France in 1810 together with the north west German coastline). This may be a blessing in disguise, as I could see the influx of new know how to such a state and likely the creation of a lot of new infrastructure (I could also see improvement in the school system, maybe even a Danish language school system), to enable the French to move transport away from the coast, as example we could see sugar beats being introduced earlier. I suspect that Flensburg would be made its capital, through Ribe and Viborg would be obvious alternatives for historical and defensive reasons.

With a Denmark on British side in the Napoleonic we would likely see a lot of British investment especially in Norway, as a Norwegian timbe4 would likely be seen as important. If Denmark have regained Scania we will likely see a lot of development there while Jutland are occupied. In many ways it’s excellent place for early water mill industrialization, especially with Copenhagen so close as market for their products.

I don't think it is possible for Napoleon to conquer Schleswig-Holstein as Denmark would have complete control of their part of Elbe River with their gunboats patrolling the waters and a line of fortification at certain key point on their territories behind the Elbe would allow Denmark to defend Holstein and forcing Napoleon into a trench warfare. In the case of Napoleon managed to conquer Holstein, then Denmark would just pull back to a modernised Danevirke. Danevirke may be useless against 1864 artillery but not 1810 artillery. This is also in Denmark's best interest in defend the duchies and Jutland at all coast being the breadbasket of the Danish-Norwegian realm. Unlike other armies of Europe such as Prussian, Austria and Russia, the Danish-Norwegian army would also be modernised and on the equal with Napoleon's army and have backup from British army.

Or am I wrong?

 

[Jürgen]

I don't think it is possible for Napoleon to conquer Schleswig-Holstein as Denmark would have complete control of their part of Elbe River with their gunboats patrolling the waters and a line of fortification at certain key point on their territories behind the Elbe would allow Denmark to defend Holstein and forcing Napoleon into a trench warfare. In the case of Napoleon managed to conquer Holstein, then Denmark would just pull back to a modernised Danevirke. Danevirke may be useless against 1864 artillery but not 1810 artillery. This is also in Denmark's best interest in defend the duchies and Jutland at all coast being the breadbasket of the Danish-Norwegian realm. Unlike other armies of Europe such as Prussian, Austria and Russia, the Danish-Norwegian army would also be modernised and on the equal with Napoleon's army and have backup from British army.

Or am I wrong?

Sadly yes the river aren’t broad enough to stop a army moving over. As for armies I think the French would win through shear numbers and better officers. At least early on, we will likely see a improvement of the officers through the war and a expansion of their class or even the creation of a strong NCO class recruited among the lower classes. But Denmark have the benefit that it may simply pull back to the islands, and the French will be unable to cross.

Of course this is not without benefits, we will likely see most of the Jutish and ducal nobility flee to Copenhagen. With them spending years in Copenhagen, we will likely see the nobility mix up and develop into one united national social class, instead of the ducal nobility being a regional class.

 

[Zillian]

Of course this is not without benefits, we will likely see most of the Jutish and ducal nobility flee to Copenhagen. With them spending years in Copenhagen, we will likely see the nobility mix up and develop into one united national social class, instead of the ducal nobility being a regional class.

How would such a united national social class of nobility influence Denmark (besides the obvious butterfly of the 1. and 2. Schleswig War)?
Besides, at that time, Christiansborg would also be burned down and correctly being rebuilt. So where would the Jutish and ducal nobility in Copenhagen be based at? Rosenborg Palace? Frederiksberg Palace? I am also unsure about the Royal Family would buy Amalienborg Palace in this TTL

 

[Jürgen]

How would such a united national social class of nobility influence Denmark (besides the obvious butterfly of the 1. and 2. Schleswig War)?
Besides, at that time, Christiansborg would also be burned down and correctly being rebuilt. So where would the Jutish and ducal nobility in Copenhagen be based at? Rosenborg Palace? Frederiksberg Palace? I am also unsure about the Royal Family would buy Amalienborg Palace in this TTL

They would likely stay in properties they have bought in and around Copenhagen, or if they lack money among family. If they lack money the men will likely seek employment in the army and central administration. We could very well see the creation of Junker-like class among the nobility, much more so than in OTL. Fundamental this would make the entire nobility backers of Helstaten. Which would limit the effect of future German nationalism on Holstein. In OTL there was a unholy alliance between conservatives and liberals in Holstein which lead to conflict between the duchies and the rest of the country. Here it will be a internal conflict with the conservatives backing the central administration. While I don’t expect a language shift in the duchies, the years in exile may also lead Danish being much more widely embraced with the ducal nobility.

The influx of a large group of nobility/will likely also result in the greater cultural development of Copenhagen. Which would be great as it strengthen the prestige of the Danish state.

 

[arctic warrior]

There may be some areas of possible Danish defensive action in Jutland; not the Peninsular but in Vendsyssel-Thy where the ford across the Limfiord is at Aggersborg. Also the 1848-50 campaign of moving forces into flanking positions like Djusland or Sundeved as well as the Wadden See isles will be a possible for great heroic deeds of Danish Army and Navy.
I'd wager the Napoleonic artillery would have much more difficulty in supporting a crossing of Alssund or Little Bealt than the Prussians of 1864.
However as Jürgen I'd expect most of the Peninsular to get occupied by the French.
Moving up the Peninsular may be a little difficult too depending on the Danish Army's ability to execute a fighting withdrawal; the eastern part is quite hilly and the west is desolate. 1864 the west wasn't really guarded except a few Cavalry and Navy though during 1848 the Cavalry had a bad day circumventing Bov during the initial attack due to desolate sandy terrain which was hard to traverse. Also the many streams and little rivers make for quite nice obstacles though in the west due to general difficulties of movement and logistics not much combat would take place.

One of the main problems of the Danish Army will be the lack of officers abilities to execute operations. Really by 1813 they did benefit from a short crash course of doing so in North Germany alongside the Corps of Marshall Davout. Here they won't have such tutors to learn from!

 

[Zillian]

Chapter 16: Treaty of London

The French Admiral de Grasse did indeed regroup with the French Admiral de Barras’s fleet of 8 Ships of the line, but the 32 Ships of the Line did not prove to be enough to force the British-Danish fleet away from Chesapeake Bay in a second naval battle at 10 September 1781 due to a boosted moral while half of de Grasse’s fleet was undermanned and needed major repairs. Admiral de Grasse was forced to send an envoy to George Washington and General Jean-Baptiste de Rochambeau who at that time was at Chester, Pennesylvania and informed them about the fiasco in secure the Chesapeake Bay and the French navy could no longer support Washington.

This failed Yorktown campaign broken the spine of the French forces in America, while another British victory at Pensacola in March 9 to May 8, 1781 allowed the British force to control West and East Florida. Both victories were contributed by Danish-Norwegian entrance in the war. Directly with the naval action at Chesapeake Bay and indirectly by relieve the pressure on the British Royal Navy at Caribbean. Without a support from the French fleet, Washington decided to give the Yorktown campaign up and pulled his army back in safety.

As a supply line was secured with fresh reinforcements and support from the British-Danish fleet, General Cornwallis allowed himself to attack the forces of General Marquis de Lafayette who had lay siege on Yorktown and routed the French-American army at 14 September. From there, he advanced back into North Carolina and take the colony once for all hence finally being able to secure South Carolina and Georgia.

The war in North America ended in a stalemate with General Washington could not pushed on without a support from the French fleet. Without French payment to his soldiers, a shattered moral and an approached winter, Washington was forced to surrender himself and his army to Cornwallis in North Carolina on 17 October so they can get something to eat. Faced with the so-called “Betray of Washington”, the losses of the only Continental Army and bankrupting, the Congress of the Confederation rose the white flag and offer peace in 22 October. That they refused to pay their own soldiers, which lead to Washington surrendered himself, never entered their mind.

News of the Yorktown campaign and the surrounding of Washington reached the government in Paris, London and Copenhagen late in November 1781. For the Britain, the war was over and wanted to negotiate a peace with the American rebels but knew that under the 1778 alliance treaty between France and America, they could not make peace without a French agreement. What none of them knew, was that France under its completely separate treaty with Spain, France could not make peace without Spanish agreement whose of that moment was the only one who wanted to continue the war in a vain hope to capture Gibraltar.

As Great Britain had in late 1780 declared a war on Holland and quickly seized all its colonial territories, Copenhagen sent a note to London and stated that they want to have secure their dominance in North Sea, Norwegian Sea and Greenland Sea, forbidden Dutch whaling in those seas, acknowledge Denmark-Norway’s claims on Jan Mayen, Bear Island and Svalbard as well cede Dutch Gold Coast to Denmark-Norway as their condition for peace.

During late autumn of 1781 and winter of 1782, the British-Danish fleet and a fresh naval reinforcement from Great Britain managed to tip the balance of power in the Caribbean to the Royal Navy and declined the French-Spanish fleet in conquered key Caribbean islands such as Jamaica, Bahamas and Danish West Indies and reconquered those lost in 1778-1780. For the Danish-Norwegian squadron in Caribbean, they managed to fulfil one of their war goal by conquered the two Spanish-claimed pirate islands in Virgin Islands. Amazed how a few extra Ships of the Lines from Denmark- Norway had turned the war in the favour of Great Britain, they stood at a very stronger position in their negotiation with America, France and Spain. For Spain, they only managed to fulfil one of their war goal – the conquest of Minorca in Mediterranean but Gibraltar were still in British hands.

Great Britain came with a surprise and generous proposal to United States America. All colonies, including those controlled by Britain, would be independent but their border would stay within the proclamation line of 1763. British generosity was based on a statesmanlike version of a close economic ties between Britain and the United States. Besides, Britain refused to control rebellious colonies. If they want freedom, then let it be.

In a final attempt to conquer Gibraltar, a Spanish-French force assaulted the British stronghold in 20 September 1782, but it soon became clear that the operation involved more troops than ever been in service at one time in the entire North America continent. That assault was a horrific disaster and yet they didn’t manage to conquer the this peninsular. France had done all they could to help Spain to achieve their essential war aim and Gibraltar was still under siege.

For United States of America, Holland, Great Britain and Denmark-Norway, the negotiation had reached to an end and a preliminary peace treaty signed but not for France and Spain. It had nothing but been a bad war for the two other colonial empire. France held no British territories in both Caribbean and India, while on the other hand Great Britain held all French territories in India and St. Lucia in Caribbean. Spain only held Minorca and Denmark-Norway held two Spanish-clamed islands which they didn’t controlled at first place. In the end, France and Spain swallowed their pride and signed under a preliminary peace treaty.

Spain was surprised over the Danish-Norwegian demand on two islands in Virgin Islands but as they were worthless for them, Spain didn’t mind ceding the claim on the islands.

The Treaty of London was finally signed in 15 March 1783.

Treaty with the United States of America

· United Kingdom of Great Britain acknowledge the United States to be free, sovereign, and independent state.

· Establishing the Boundaries of United States along the proclamation line of 1763

· Granting fishing rights to United States fishermen in the Grand Banks, off the coast of Newfoundland and in the Gulf of Saint Lawrence

· Territories captured by either side subsequent to the treaty will be returned without compensation

· Ratification of the treaty is to occur within six months from its signing

Treaty with the Kingdom of France

· All territories conquered either side since the war began are to be returned to their pre-war owners.

· The territorial situation in Caribbean, North America and India restores to which existed before France enters the war

· British Crown retains Newfoundland and adjacent islands exept Saint Pierre Miquelon and Miquelon

· French crown surrenders fishing rights between Cape Bonavista and Cape St. John but instead keeps fishing rights between Cape St. John and Cape Ray

· The French crown may still fish in the Gulf of St. Lawrence

· No English possession in Africa surrenders to France

· Britain and France will cease to aid their respective Indian allies against each other within four months

· British crown abandons restrictions on French use of the port of Dunkirk in France.

· The two crowns will make new commercial agreements by the end of 1786.

Treaty with Kingdom of Spain

· British crown surrenders Menorca to Spain

· Spanish crown cedes their claims on Virgin Islands to Denmark-Norway

· All territories conquered by either side since the war began, and not mentioned above, are to be returned to their pre-war owners.

· The two crowns will make new commercial agreements by the end of 1786.

Treaty with the United Provinces

· Surrender the town of Negapatnam in India to the British crown

· British crown returns Trinquemale in India to the States General of the Republic with all other Dutch towns, forts, harbours and settlements conquered by the British forces during the war

· The States General of the Republic surrenders fishing rights in the seas north of line 59

· The States General of the Republic cedes all coastal forts at Gold Coast to Denmark-Norway

 

[Eonex]

So maybe King Christian is willing to consider to support the Americans a bit? They may not need it now, but they will become a powerhouse in the next 50 years. It can be a path to a more increased Danish immigration to the US as well.

Also, very good timeline! I'm following it earnestly.

 

[Arrix85]

Is that automatic that the US will become OTL powerful? Now to expand they have to go though the British Empire... even the possibility of a Louisiana purchase is compromised.

It would be fun to see the rise of a British Canada centered around Chicago or Detroit (meaning the location, not the names), maybe with a border along the Ohio and Missouri rivers?