"Hybrid Vigor" Ideology?

Regarding S America, look at Lopez surviving and prospering in Paraguay - IIRC his regime was a blend of Spanish and native, and he spoke both languages etc

I did something similar in a story I once began, where West Indian troops rescued Britain from Napoleonic domination late in the 19th century, and mixed race marriages became a symbol of patriotism

One wonders from that whether mixed race nobility could have a part to play in earlier ages ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I made a rough timeline for a successful Frankish Outremer that ended up streching down the Red Sea. An Ethiopian kingdom, probably ruled by the Zagwe Dynasty, would develop and get into communion with Rome. The Ethiopian royal family would intermarry with Frankish nobility and royalty, and in the east a much more mixed race nobility would appear. The extended Frankish occupation of the east will lead to larger commercial networks as the Italian merchant states link directly into the pre-existing Arab trade networks that lead east to India. I think that Arab merchants would begin to convert to Roman Catholicism in order to do business, and those converts would be able to start running their own trading houses to do business in the east. These converts would be able to get wealthy and start marrying into the Outremer nobility, ala the Italian merchant princes.
 
That's more likely to develop under Communism or any other left-leaning ideology to be honest.

The Fascists are kinda big on the race thing.

I don't see him saying that it had to come out of Facism or Communism just that the idea came to him by looking at Facism and Communism. Basically I think he came up with it as the opposite end of Nazism.
 

Trolim

Banned
Hybrid vigor ideology racists like 'la Raza' are also pretty big on the race thing. Point being, a 'hybrid vigor' ideology could come from a racist, right-wing perspective.
 
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I don't see him saying that it had to come out of Facism or Communism just that the idea came to him by looking at Facism and Communism. Basically I think he came up with it as the opposite end of Nazism.

True - the idea came from a biology text book mentioning it in conjunction with corn, and some musings on the insane Nazi racial ideas. I had the idea of an ideology that had the opposite view of racial intermixing from the Nazis, and then thought of having "hybrid vigor" as the rationalization for it.

It could come from either the left or the right, or some other direction, really.
 
I was just thinking about 20th Century ideologies that inspired mass movements, Communism and Fascism, basically. Since I'd been doing a bit of reading for Biology before that, and the topic that I'd been reading about was Genetics, I had a rather odd thought.

First of all, "hybrid vigor" is the phenomenon where a cross breed is more fit than either of its parents. The plant this is most famous in is corn, where basically all modern corn of the sort found in supermarkets is a hybrid form.

So, I was wondering. Fascism, in the Nazi form, focused on the supposed superiority of a single, "Aryan" race. Could there be an ideology that, as part of its basic view, focuses on the idea of hybrid vigor applied to human beings, and encourages people to breed outside of their native ethnic group. Perhaps combine this with an internationalist bent, combining cultures and so on? World Peace through a mono-culture?

Just a strange thought I came up with, probably the result of insufficient sleep as much as anything else.

How about a politicised version of the Baha'i Faith?
 
I was just thinking about 20th Century ideologies that inspired mass movements, Communism and Fascism, basically. Since I'd been doing a bit of reading for Biology before that, and the topic that I'd been reading about was Genetics, I had a rather odd thought.

First of all, "hybrid vigor" is the phenomenon where a cross breed is more fit than either of its parents. The plant this is most famous in is corn, where basically all modern corn of the sort found in supermarkets is a hybrid form.

So, I was wondering. Fascism, in the Nazi form, focused on the supposed superiority of a single, "Aryan" race. Could there be an ideology that, as part of its basic view, focuses on the idea of hybrid vigor applied to human beings, and encourages people to breed outside of their native ethnic group. Perhaps combine this with an internationalist bent, combining cultures and so on? World Peace through a mono-culture?

Just a strange thought I came up with, probably the result of insufficient sleep as much as anything else.
Well I certianly follow that in OTL, so just make a million or so clones of me :p:eek::rolleyes:
 
Bump!

Any developement with this idea, RCTFI?

True, though the racialist theories of the time that they embraced tended towards theories of 'purity' rather than hybridism. Given their emphasis on national identity rather than internationalism, they wouldn't likely embrace such a theory either.

That's the biggest problem here, I think.

The kind of racial theories they had were needed as one of the justifications for imperialism.

For something like this working in 20th century Europe we'd need a POD centuries before so that racial justifications for imperialism would never be used. And POD so far in the past might as well butterfly away the 20th century as we know it.
 
Bump!

Any developement with this idea, RCTFI?



That's the biggest problem here, I think.

The kind of racial theories they had were needed as one of the justifications for imperialism.

For something like this working in 20th century Europe we'd need a POD centuries before so that racial justifications for imperialism would never be used. And POD so far in the past might as well butterfly away the 20th century as we know it.

Not so much. I actually toyed with making this sort of concept a component of a future ideology in the scifi setting I'm creating, but then I ultimately decided against that idea. I have thought about it, a little at least, and it seems like with just the right sort of twisting and turning of the possibilities, you could get something like this coming out of the Russian Civil War and the victory of the Communists - perhaps rather than try to exterminate the Ukrainians for their seperatist ideas, instead they try to make them Russian by encouraging inter-marriage. Or doing the same with other minorities, Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians for example. Indeed, there already was a movement of people into those areas as part of an effort to make them more Russian. Who knows really, though. This was mostly just an idle thought.
 
perhaps rather than try to exterminate the Ukrainians for their seperatist ideas, instead they try to make them Russian by encouraging inter-marriage. Or doing the same with other minorities, Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians for example. Indeed, there already was a movement of people into those areas as part of an effort to make them more Russian. Who knows really, though. This was mostly just an idle thought.

Ban non-Russian/non-Russian unions. A non-Russian, half-Russian, quarter-Russian may only marry someone who is Russian to an equal or greater degree.
 
Hybrid vigor ideology racists like 'la Raza' are also pretty big on the race thing. Point being, a 'hybrid vigor' ideology could come from a racist, right-wing perspective.

very true actually. Which is why I see Brazil and Mexico as the two most likely places for this type of ideology to take off.
 
I think part of the problem with this idea is that you are fighting against nature, at least in theory. If we can take the "Selfish Gene" idea for a moment as given, and that our DNA works to propogate itself as closely as possible - to anthropomorphize a molecule, it assumes it is the best type of DNA there is, otherwise it would not have survived long enough to propogate - except that it needs to mix with another. The corollary to that is it can't breed too closely to itself or mistakes and errors are amplified (which is why incest is so bad, biologically - let's not get into the ickiess of it morally).

It has been shown that, generally, people are attracted to other people that sorta look like themselves. This makes sense if you think that for most of history people were confined to fairly small groupings that were generally extended families. IIRC, 2nd cousins is the 'optimum' attractor relationship. This means that you and a mate share a lot of DNA, emphasizing the special properties that make yours 'better' than all others, while being sufficiently distant from each other to overwrite all those errors that can lead to disease and misery.

Now, not to get into the morality of the question here, as I'm sure we will, but this goes against the idea of spreading and mixing far and wide. While it may very well be that it would be better for the overall genepool to mix it up, for the individual DNA pattern that is you, it would be throwing away your uniqueness to breed outside 'your tribe'.

Full disclosure: I am in a 'mixed-race' marriage and have every intention of having children, despite whatever my unique DNA may want, so please don't assign me any hateful ideologies. I am merely espousing a scientific theory.
 
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