Hurrah for Old Joe!: Hooker Wins at Chancellorsville

Lee is not done for. It depends if old Joe keeps up the pressure. Is Hooker willing to fight all summer to take away Lee's freedom of movement?

Hooker actually doesn't have to. Most analysis of Chancellorsville suggested the Jackson/Stuart part of the Sothern army would be been vulnerable to a counterstroke. A lot of it suggests the South should have lost 25% of its manpower with a third of that losses for the North, had Hooker kept his nerve. 20,000 might be a bit excessive but we can say sometimes the improbable happens. Look at the Charge of the Light Brigade, which by conventional wisdom should have been mowed down before it got within 10 meters actually made contact with the Russian artillery battery and overran it. Aside form the artillery batter just overrun, there was also combined infantry and cavalry force that outnumbered them 33 to one. The Russians were actually went packing for 5 minutes before fighting back and forcing the Light Brigade away.

Anyways, with so many Southern losses and few Northern ones as Chancellorsville, Hooker can play the slow advance game, careful to avoid any reverses.
 
Just popping out to give the author of this TL some info that may be useful in what happens next. Hooker may not be as well off as we think he is, the 2 year enlistments are expiring and the Army of the Potomac will be losing 23,000 men between May 5-July 1st.

On the bright side, Union morale will certainly be boosted by this victory. Can’t wait for more updates.:)
 
Just popping out to give the author of this TL some info that may be useful in what happens next. Hooker may not be as well off as we think he is, the 2 year enlistments are expiring and the Army of the Potomac will be losing 23,000 men between May 5-July 1st.

On the bright side, Union morale will certainly be boosted by this victory. Can’t wait for more updates.:)

Much thanks for the comment and the info.:) So that explains why the Union numbers are so high at Chancellorsville then drop off by Gettysburg.
 
I would think that in the wake of a great victory like this, Hooker would want to consolidate the AotP, replenish his losses and seek replacements for the 2 yr men leaving the Army. He would also want to consult with Lincoln about planning his next move.
For the AotP, this is a crucial moment. They just won their first major victory over Lee and the ANV; this will have a massive positive effect on morale. I can easily see a number of the 2 year men re-enlisting. For Hooker, this victory will help boost his confidence in his men and himself. This will also boost Union morale considerably.
For the CSA OTOH, this is a disaster; Lee has lost one third* of the ANV and his most trusted lieutenant Jackson in the process. Lee now has to regroup, reorganize and replenish his army ASAP. For Jefferson Davis, this has to be a nightmare; Lee forced to retreat, Vicksburg and Chattanooga under attack. By any measure, the CSA is in serious trouble. Lee will be in no position to invade the North.

*Alex, I do not see Lee losing 1/3 of his men as unreasonable; the death of Jackson and the Union counterattack would no doubt have caused morale to collapse for the ANV. Such a collapse could easily lead to high losses.
 
What was the historical re-enlistment rate?
I imagine it will be higher ATL with some soldiers wanting to see it through to Richmond.
 
Just popping out to give the author of this TL some info that may be useful in what happens next. Hooker may not be as well off as we think he is, the 2 year enlistments are expiring and the Army of the Potomac will be losing 23,000 men between May 5-July 1st.

On the bright side, Union morale will certainly be boosted by this victory. Can’t wait for more updates.:)

He should be able to at least hold his ground and dig in with the numbers he has. Heck, with 20K Southern casualties (a bit on the high side of the estimate of what historians think about the what if Hooker won, but possible), he might be able to still make some slow advances. No onto Richmond though, unless Southern unionists manage to cut the rails. And aside from West Virginia and Tennessee, there weren't enough of the Unionists (if there were enough, they'd control the state governments, eh) to make a dent in the war efforts unless they went to Northern lines.
 
What was the historical re-enlistment rate?
I imagine it will be higher ATL with some soldiers wanting to see it through to Richmond.
About 2/3rds re-enlisted (26,767 veterans) thanks to the rewards for doing so. (Although only 40% of Hancock’s II Corps re-enlisted)
 
Their were also 9 month troops as well they made up a division of the 5th corps and were also in other corps. their terms of enlistment were also running out as well.
 
XII: Hooker Under Fire

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In the aftermath of his great victory, Hooker and the Army of the Potomac began a period of rest and refitting that would last the next two months. With enlistments expiring, Hooker's army began to bleed manpower reducing its offensive capabilities. Hooker also lost the services of his capable second in command Darius Couch who retired from active field command. Couch was succeeded in his role by General Henry Slocum. Slocum was a solid officer and would fulfill the role adequately.

Not everything was entirely quiet skirmishing continued along the front. Lee had reconstituted his forces somewhat and molded them again into a capable force. The Confederate commander was determined to strike back in some way and he looked to the Shenandoah Valley as a weak spot in the Union defenses. In mid June, Lee dispatched General Richard Ewell and roughly 12,000 men for a strike into the Valley. Ewell had previously been Stonewall Jackson's most able subordinate and he knew the Shenandoah extremely well. He succeeded in capturing Winchester along with its 4,000 man garrison. This was a significant setback and embarrassment for the Union. A furious Hooker, responded to the move by dispatching his trusted General Sedgwick at the head of 20,000 men to resecure the area.

During this period, Hooker was for the most part away from the army in Washington. He was under fire from many angles and needed to improve his image. The good publicity gained from his victory had been shorter lived than he had hoped. Hooker busied himself by making public appearances, speaking to political sponsors and doing interviews with press. Most importantly, he took some time to meet with the President. Despite some disagreement over how long the army needed to rest, Hooker and Lincoln established a very good rapport with each other. In the words of Hooker, Lincoln treated him as a father would treat his son. Dealing with Hallack was a more complicated manner, Hooker refused to meet with him in person. The two men had a long history of animosity that prevented them from working well together. They clashed constantly over the most minor of details.

While Hooker has stuck in the weeds, the Western generals were beginning to make a name for themselves.....
 
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Finally. Chancellorsville has always been one of my favorite what-if's. In my opinion, Lee won the battle OTL through sheer luck. Hooker was likely to win all the way until he was knocked unconscious and suffered a concussion that more or less took away any chance of his retaking the offensive.
 
Finally. Chancellorsville has always been one of my favorite what-if's. In my opinion, Lee won the battle OTL through sheer luck. Hooker was likely to win all the way until he was knocked unconscious and suffered a concussion that more or less took away any chance of his retaking the offensive.

I very much agree. Even after Jackson's flank attack, Hooker still outnumbered Lee 2-1 and had two corps unused. The Union really defeated itself at this battle.
 
I very much agree. Even after Jackson's flank attack, Hooker still outnumbered Lee 2-1 and had two corps unused. The Union really defeated itself at this battle.
One hundred percent agree. And don't even get me started on Stoneman. :p Sedgewick, either. Or the damn wireless telegraphs.
Anyway, awesome start so far, and really interested to see where this goes. Grant at this point will almost certainly take Vicksburg more or less the same way, and really could only do better. Maybe better performance at Champion's Hill or something. It will be interesting to see how Grant and Hooker will interact in this TL.
 
Finally. Chancellorsville has always been one of my favorite what-if's. In my opinion, Lee won the battle OTL through sheer luck. Hooker was likely to win all the way until he was knocked unconscious and suffered a concussion that more or less took away any chance of his retaking the offensive.

As I pointed out the Hazel Grove was the key terrain.
 
As I pointed out the Hazel Grove was the key terrain.
I disagree, to the extent that if Hooker is not wounded and Meade's attack goes as planned, the Rebel left flank will collapse and Hazel Grove will be untenable. It can still inflict damage, but not decisively.
 
The Grove position was hold able against superior numbers even if the rebel left flank runs away in disorder. I've read textbooks and seen photographs of not just that location, but various parts of the battlefield. I'm pretty convinced that Mead's corps would take quite a beating with that idea and while a north victory isn't impossible given their numbers, they might end up having the smaller army by the end of June (once causlties and enlistment expiring, plus OTL re sign up rate is taken into consideration). Sickles's corps took a beating even though they had moved to outside 2/3 of the range of the artillery guns. Imagine trying to approach it from a worse side, but instead of suffering the outer 1/3 of the range, but 100%.
 
The Grove position was hold able against superior numbers even if the rebel left flank runs away in disorder. I've read textbooks and seen photographs of not just that location, but various parts of the battlefield. I'm pretty convinced that Mead's corps would take quite a beating with that idea and while a north victory isn't impossible given their numbers, they might end up having the smaller army by the end of June (once causlties and enlistment expiring, plus OTL re sign up rate is taken into consideration). Sickles's corps took a beating even though they had moved to outside 2/3 of the range of the artillery guns. Imagine trying to approach it from a worse side, but instead of suffering the outer 1/3 of the range, but 100%.
Don't forget the I Corps is also involved. Looking at the tactical maps of the battle, it appears to me that I/V Corps could have done to Stuart what Jackson did to Sedgewick at Antietam. Their dense, narrow front meant to drive into Sickles' salient was extremely vulnerable to a flank attack, which I/V Corps were in an optimal position to do. Once they rout, there is really little infantry left on the field to stop the AotP from either simply overwhelming Hazel Grove, bypassing it, or hitting it from multiple sides. Would they have suffered casualties? Absolutely. But Hazel Grove could not win on its own against the two most powerful, best lead corps in the AotP.
 
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