Hungarian Habsburgs

This post is a little off the beaten track and I don't know if anything major will come of it, but here goes:

When the Russian grand duchess, Alexandra Pavlovna, came to Hungary as the wife of Palatine Josef of Austria, she endeared herself to the Hungarian people in a way no other member of the Habsburg family did until Empress Sisi. When in due course, Alexandra became pregnant, she decided to give birth in Hungary rather than in Vienna. Naturally, her sister-in-law, the Empress Maria Teresa (of Naples), didn't like her (finer jewels, prettier etc) and the rumors started to swirl that if Hungary got a native-born prince (i.e. Alexandra birthed a son) it would break away from Austria.

Needless to say, Alexandra gave birth - dying in the process - to a little archduchess who died at birth.

But what might the results be of Alexandra surviving the birth, and also if that archduchess had been born a male?

Discuss.
 
I wonder if Russia would support Austria or Hungary were it to secede. Holy Alliance was Austria and Russia (among others), but would the Tsar support his nephew against his ally, or throw said nephew to the wolves?
 
At that point there is no chance of Hungary seceding. In 1801 and during the whole Napoleonic era the hungarian elit supported the Habsburgs and Austria. There were some problems but they feared Napoleon so much that they would stay true to Austria in this period. And there was 1795 when most of the Hungarians who might support a secession were executed or inprisoned.

And 1848 showed what might have happened on a later date - the hungarian uprising in 1848 could only be beaten with russian help and that russian help came - Russia didnt like the revolution. At one point they even contemplated to intervene in the greek revolution in the early 20s on the side of the turkish because they saw the thing as the greeks rebelling against their rightful ruler. And a secession of Hungary would be a rebellion - unless Austria agrees to it which is impossible. So in the end i dont see any significant changes.
 
This post is a little off the beaten track and I don't know if anything major will come of it, but here goes:

When the Russian grand duchess, Alexandra Pavlovna, came to Hungary as the wife of Palatine Josef of Austria, she endeared herself to the Hungarian people in a way no other member of the Habsburg family did until Empress Sisi. When in due course, Alexandra became pregnant, she decided to give birth in Hungary rather than in Vienna. Naturally, her sister-in-law, the Empress Maria Teresa (of Naples), didn't like her (finer jewels, prettier etc) and the rumors started to swirl that if Hungary got a native-born prince (i.e. Alexandra birthed a son) it would break away from Austria.

Needless to say, Alexandra gave birth - dying in the process - to a little archduchess who died at birth.

But what might the results be of Alexandra surviving the birth, and also if that archduchess had been born a male?

Discuss.

Yeah this would have no consequences whatsoever. Archduke Josef remarried two times and had at least one son. This didn't affect anything accept that before 1848 the Hungarian branch acted as an in house governor.
 
Archduke Joseph was pretty well liked in Hungary himself. I really don't see an earlier son being born to the Hugarians' favorite Archdutchess would have really changed Hungarian history at all.

I have wondered what might have happened if Joseph ended up succeeding his borther Francis as Emperor. Would it have increased Hungarian identification with Austria as a whole? Probably not, but it is an interesting scenario.

fasquardon
 
I agree, the Magyar aristocracy was aligned with Austria during this time if only for reasons of property rights.

Things changed in the generation following the Vienna settlement. Archduke Stephen is intriguing. As a moderate and an appeaser, he was hated by everybody.

But doesn't an Ausgleich-lite in 1848 or 1849 seem so appealing? An autonomous Hungary with a strong Imperial center governing overall policy and with generous liberties for Croatia and Transylvania under the royal Hungarian umbrella?

This could have made everything so much less bloody--this shift toward Budapest suggested by both Marx and Bismarck.
 
I agree, the Magyar aristocracy was aligned with Austria during this time if only for reasons of property rights.

Things changed in the generation following the Vienna settlement. Archduke Stephen is intriguing. As a moderate and an appeaser, he was hated by everybody.

But doesn't an Ausgleich-lite in 1848 or 1849 seem so appealing? An autonomous Hungary with a strong Imperial center governing overall policy and with generous liberties for Croatia and Transylvania under the royal Hungarian umbrella?

This could have made everything so much less bloody--this shift toward Budapest suggested by both Marx and Bismarck.

Yeah no. The problem was, as always the Magyar aristocracy. Instead of pandering to them constantly over the centuries, the Habsburgs should have taken advantage of one of their frequent uprisings and fully cut them down to size. You can't have liberties for Croatia and Transylvania with the Magyar aristocracy remaining in power. Period. I'm of the opinion that the Austrian Empire needed to federalize to survive. That was the only way to balance the rights of each national group with the power of the central government. Anything less then that would lead to the Empire's destruction, as the end of WWI proved.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Yeah no. The problem was, as always the Magyar aristocracy. Instead of pandering to them constantly over the centuries, the Habsburgs should have taken advantage of one of their frequent uprisings and fully cut them down to size. You can't have liberties for Croatia and Transylvania with the Magyar aristocracy remaining in power. Period. I'm of the opinion that the Austrian Empire needed to federalize to survive. That was the only way to balance the rights of each national group with the power of the central government. Anything less then that would lead to the Empire's destruction, as the end of WWI proved.

A Federation was not something the Habsburgs ever were seriously interested in (would diminish their power even more, and of course probably lead to even faster rising nationalism in the different regions), and as you mentioned: the Magyar aristocracy would not be pleased (splitting Transylvania from Hungary would not have been politically feasible if you wanted any kind of relation with Budapest).
 
Top