[HRE AH] - A Different Name?

See above. Obviously the glory and prestige of Rome and it's memory in western Europe was why it was used by the Carolingians and then the Ottonians and so on and so forth, but is there any other name that could be used for the HRE that would make sense? Maybe something rooted in it's Franco-German origins, like the much later created German Confederation or something pertaining to the Pope, ala the Papal States?
 
If you just want to get rid of the "Rome" part, then you could just replace it with "Christian" or "Catholic" or "Peterian". Peterian? Petorian? Something referring to Saint Peter, since the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, is his successor, and all.

So you could go with "Holy Christian Empire" or "Holy Catholic Empire" or something similar. Maybe move the structure around and get "Holy Empire of Christ".

If you want to get rid of the "Empire" part as well, then replace it with something that matches what its original purpose was supposed to be - the protector and preserver of Christendom. Instead of an "Empire", call it a "Protectorate" or a "March" or maybe even a "Guard", in the sense of a state rather than a person.

"Holy Catholic Protectorate". "Holy Christian March". "The Holy Catholic Guard".

Of course, you can also swap out "Holy" for synonyms, such as "Divine" or even "Righteous". "Divine Christian Protectorate". "The Righteous Catholic Guard".

Obviously some of these are a bit more of a stretch, but I hope what I said makes sense.
 
Wasn't the entire concept of Empire tied with Rome at that point? The only reason it could call itself an Empire is because it could claim legitimate succession to Rome itself. If it isn't Roman, then it isn't an Empire.

So something like the Frankish Kingdom, German Kingdom, etc. could work.
 
Wasn't the entire concept of Empire tied with Rome at that point? The only reason it could call itself an Empire is because it could claim legitimate succession to Rome itself. If it isn't Roman, then it isn't an Empire.

So something like the Frankish Kingdom, German Kingdom, etc. could work.

Why does it necessarily have to be Roman to be an Empire? Plenty of empires aren't roman.
 
Why does it necessarily have to be Roman to be an Empire? Plenty of empires aren't roman.
At the time, Empire meant Rome. There really weren't that many other empires in history known to the Europeans, besides the Macedonians and the Persians.
 
Why does it necessarily have to be Roman to be an Empire? Plenty of empires aren't roman.

Today, we consider the dynasties of places like China, Persia, and so on to be "empires", but that's just how we choose to translate them. They never called themselves an empire, but some local term that would have some similar meaning. In Europe, the concept came from Roman "Imperium". This was true all the way up until Napoleon, when the term became more diluted. So if an alt-HRE didn't play up it's "Roman-ness", it wouldn't have called itself an Empire either.
 
Well the Holy part wasn't added until Barbarossa. Until then it was just the Roman Empire, so named as if in continuation of the Roman Empire in the West. If Holy isn't used then you might get Western Roman Empire.
If the Ottonians fail then the imperial title likely rests in (Lombard) Italy and you could get HRE or Italo-Roman Empire. The surviving Ottonian inheritance is likely Kingdom of Germany and whatever other kingdoms they snag.

I have this weird idea of the "western" imperial title lapsing until Hungary christianises and brief cooperation between the Eastern Empire and the Pope sees Hungary become the centre of the revived Western Empire.
 
Here in Norway we call in "Det Tysk-Romerske Rike" or in English "The German-Roman Empire/Germano-Roman Empire". I always thought that name is far better than the English equivalent because it's more descriptive and not as confusing.
 
Why does it necessarily have to be Roman to be an Empire? Plenty of empires aren't roman.

"Empire", in the sense they understood it, was a proper noun referring to a specific thing, rather than a common noun. There was only one Empire, after all (as another commentator said, the word itself is used in translation). This is the salient thing to understand when the Pope crowned Charlemagne and subsequent Emperors. They weren't just creating what we might understand today as an imperial polity, they were assuming the mantle of Empire.

There was also a considerable religious connotation attached to being Emperor. The Book of Daniel (2:39-40) foretold a kind of translation of power. This goes into it somewhat. The view of the single secular most powerful Christian as its martial head, alongside the Pope as spiritual head of the Christian world, was common.
 
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I'm an idiot. There was the most obvious of names to make use of from IRL/OTL instead of the Holy Roman Empire.

It is of course, the Latin Empire. Short-lived as a part of the Frankokratia period in the Balkans, but no less viable as a choice of name for a successor to the Western Roman Empire.
 
See above. Obviously the glory and prestige of Rome and it's memory in western Europe was why it was used by the Carolingians and then the Ottonians and so on and so forth, but is there any other name that could be used for the HRE that would make sense? Maybe something rooted in it's Franco-German origins, like the much later created German Confederation or something pertaining to the Pope, ala the Papal States?

Empire of the Franks, to balance with the Eastern Roman Empire being called the Empire of the Greeks?
 
Could they subvert 'Carolingian' for the Carolingian Empire?

This is a historiographical term. Most pertinent to this thread, Wikipedia offers that it was called, at various times, Romanorum sive Francorum imperium ("empire of the Romans and Franks"), Romanum imperium ("Roman empire") or even imperium christianum ("Christian empire")
 
Could they subvert 'Carolingian' for the Carolingian Empire?

Carolingian refers to the ruling dynasty who were all relatives of Charlemagne. It stops making sense the minute a non-Carolingian takes the throne. Though I suppose that if they could establish themselves further and stay in control longer they might be able to make their name synonymous with their territory, like what happened with the various Chinese dynasties, some of the Muslim and Hindu empires, and most pertinently the Merovingians (among other things it's used as synonym for Frank in Beowulf).
 
"Empire", in the sense they understood it, was a proper noun referring to a specific thing, rather than a common noun. There was only one Empire, after all (as another commentator said, the word itself is used in translation). This is the salient thing to understand when the Pope crowned Charlemagne and subsequent Emperors. They weren't just creating what we might understand today as an imperial polity, they were assuming the mantle of Empire.

There was also a considerable religious connotation attached to being Emperor. The Book of Daniel (2:39-40) foretold a kind of translation of power. This goes into it somewhat. The view of the single secular most powerful Christian as its martial head, alongside the Pope as spiritual head of the Christian world, was common.
Most chroniquers and theologians went further. They saw the end of the Roman Empire as the beginning of the end of times, also based on Daniel. For the prediction of the apocalyps to be right, the Roman empire had to live on in the HRE. (apparently a common practice among prophets of the end of times)
 
Most chroniquers and theologians went further. They saw the end of the Roman Empire as the beginning of the end of times, also based on Daniel. For the prediction of the apocalyps to be right, the Roman empire had to live on in the HRE. (apparently a common practice among prophets of the end of times)

Even prior to the final collapse of the Empire and up until today there is some prophecy by respected mystics who anticipate a Holy Roman Emperor who would restore France. This kind of stuff has considerable provenance and goes back to the question at hand, of course.
 
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