HRE after Reichsdeputationshauptschluss

Supposing that, following the Treaty of Luneville (in 1801) and the subsequent secularization and mediatization of Germany (in 1803), there hadn't been a War of the Third Coalition or any major European wars for significantly longer; point here being, Napoleon does not abolish the Holy Roman Empire just a few years after so fundamentally altering it.

What does this mean for the Germanies? Is what's left of the Holy Roman Empire now on borrowed time until it collapses entirely, or is it possible for it to evolve into something else? And depending on where the Germanies goes from there, how is history altered?
 
The position of the emperor had become actually weaker by the RDH. The knights and independent cities who had supported him were gone now.
 
The position of the emperor had become actually weaker by the RDH. The knights and independent cities who had supported him were gone now.

True, but boosting the relative power of the Imperial Diet has the potential to produce a... closer union than 1800 if certainly less unified than the later German Empire, especially as fundimental technological/commerical changes that were coming with the rise of the industrial economy were coming. The HRE would provide the framework, without a German Hegemon existing in Prussia, for a more equitable Zollverein/custom's union and, since authority in the Empire is more defused, efforts towards co-operation would appear less threatening to the second-tier member states since it coulden't be seen as a vehicle to turn the Empire into a "Greater *Insert name of German Hegemon state here*" and the terms of any agreement would have to be crafted to be more equitable.
 
The position of the emperor had become actually weaker by the RDH. The knights and independent cities who had supported him were gone now.
True, but boosting the relative power of the Imperial Diet has the potential to produce a... closer union than 1800...
Would they though? I think we all agree that the Holy Roman Emperor is now more a figurehead than ever, but if he still exists and pretty much everyone with power left in the empire wants him to stay that way, then they might be reluctant to federate to anything close to Confederation of the Rhine levels.
 
Would they though? I think we all agree that the Holy Roman Emperor is now more a figurehead than ever, but if he still exists and pretty much everyone with power left in the empire wants him to stay that way, then they might be reluctant to federate to anything close to Confederation of the Rhine levels.

I suppose it depends on if you think the HRE is going to be following a strong executive model: if you adopt a weak executive model, than there's certainly motivations that will start arising for at least closer co-operation between the members as the outside gets stronger, precisely to resist being goosesteped/hostile t akeovered into overcenteralization (in their eyes) by increasingly anti-pecularist/strong centeral government neighbors. The rise of larger armies who can trounce any individual member's paltry forces? Looks like we need closer co-ordination between our forces in order to protect our German Freedoms, and strategic border states are going to need investment in order to build these fancy new fortress complete they can't afford alone. Rise of interstate commerce and regional industrial hubs? Well need some currency and customs rationalization, and legal co-operation to build canals, railroads, ect.

Think the factors that lead to the US... only with a Senate consisting of the nobility and holding the lion's share of the power.
 
If you adopt a weak executive model, than there's certainly motivations that will start arising for at least closer co-operation between the members as the outside gets stronger, precisely to resist being goosesteped/hostile t akeovered into overcenteralization (in their eyes) by increasingly anti-pecularist/strong centeral government neighbors. The rise of larger armies who can trounce any individual member's paltry forces? Looks like we need closer co-ordination between our forces in order to protect our German Freedoms, and strategic border states are going to need investment in order to build these fancy new fortress complete they can't afford alone. Rise of interstate commerce and regional industrial hubs? Well need some currency and customs rationalization, and legal co-operation to build canals, railroads, ect.
Thinking this over, I do agree that it's the smart thing for the more powerful German nobles to push for, but I do wonder if they'll be able to forgo perceived short term and selfish comparative-power interests to meet them. If they feel like they can gain more wealth, power, and short term sovereignty by aligning more with French or Austrian wishes about how such confederation should work, or are convinced that other nobles are all pretty much already thinking that way, will they still be inclined to reform the empire as it exists? And even if they're not, will they be so to the same extent as this time period (1803-13 and after) OTL?
 
Thinking this over, I do agree that it's the smart thing for the more powerful German nobles to push for, but I do wonder if they'll be able to forgo perceived short term and selfish comparative-power interests to meet them. If they feel like they can gain more wealth, power, and short term sovereignty by aligning more with French or Austrian wishes about how such confederation should work, or are convinced that other nobles are all pretty much already thinking that way, will they still be inclined to reform the empire as it exists? And even if they're not, will they be so to the same extent as this time period (1803-13 and after) OTL?

If they're suspicious of Emperor-level efforts to recenteralize executive authority, than they're naturally going to be skeptical about aligning the Empire to Austrian interests (Unless the Habsburgs lose their Imperial monopoly). And it's certainly not the guranteed route; though, I think its more likely to start (and reach a successful conclusion) as a slow consolidation of regional power-blocs around the more powerful German state (Bavaria, Prussia, Saxony, ect.) who'd want to tie the minor states around them more tightly to their personal influence, using the Imperial structures as a tool for doing so (For example, let's say Dresden becomes an industrial center; they'll want to increase interregional trade in order to strengthen themselves and pushing for routes to direct industrial-input supplies like coal and expand river and rail infastructure to ease their commerical interests). Over time, this would tighten the bonds between the German states internally through selfish motivations, resulting in slow, gradual reforms over the decades until you have something resembling a real federation if you squint.
 
Top