How would you get a state between France and Germany?

Barring Burgundy, how would you get an independent state between Germany and France, and how would it effect relations between these two nations. Im assuming the state would be around the general area of Alsace-Lorraine, but not confined to it.

Is it possible, or is it not due to the mess that is European politics?
 
Barring Burgundy, how would you get an independent state between Germany and France, and how would it effect relations between these two nations. Im assuming the state would be around the general area of Alsace-Lorraine, but not confined to it.

Is it possible, or is it not due to the mess that is European politics?

I think it's certainly possible, but it might involve some fancy footwork: perhaps Germany and France end up fighting a disastrous war over said region that nobody really wins....and they both decide that they'd rather avoid said conflict happening again, and agree to spin-off this region into its own country, a la Switzerland, perhaps.
 
Switzerland already separates Southern France from Southern Germany. They have traded Alsace and Lorraine back and forth several times. The next step is to "neutralize" the Saarland.

The northern separation is provided by poor Belgium.
Luxemburg is also a tiny buffer state.
 
Friend, forgive me for this...but there is a state between Germany and France...its called, Luxemburg. Terrible name if you ask me but there it is(Sorry! Sorry, I had to!).
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Luxemburg ^

and Belgium

and Netherlands

I think what you mean is very big state that formidable enough to deter both France and German ? big Rhine based state is possible, that area is HRE territory, different birth/marriage/death might give one family lucky enough to own the whole area.

I think there are TL on this, successful burgundy or something.
 
Keep Saarland as an independent French protectorate Post-WWII; eventually have it evolve into an Austria analogue, only NATO aligned instead of neutral.
 
Barring Burgundy, how would you get an independent state between Germany and France, and how would it effect relations between these two nations. Im assuming the state would be around the general area of Alsace-Lorraine, but not confined to it.

Is it possible, or is it not due to the mess that is European politics?

I assume you mean ONE state, not several, as you have the Benelux-states plus Switzerland?

Maybe it could come about as a result of the Congress of Vienna if the Netherlands got Alsace Lorraine and maybe even areas of Germany west of the Rhine. The problem is of course how it would survive. In OTL Belgium became independent in 1830. This would be unlikely to change in this time line. Maybe even some of the other areas would split of.

What about an earlier POD. Stein Rokkan has pointed out that the "city belt", the most urbanised areas of Europe, were the last parts to become part of larger states. Kings and monarchs were had problems to control larger parts of these areas for long until the time of Napoleon.
 
The best bet if you still want a halfway recognizable Europe is to somehow get the conservative European powers to establish Lotharingia/Lorraine as a buffer state between the restored Kingdom of France and the German states at the Congress of Vienna. Basically covering Lorraine, Alsace, parts of the Rhineland and Greater Luxemburg would result in a nice, little entity, which could be controlled by Vienna to halt French ambitions in Europe. I mean it wouldn't be the sole state between France and the German states (the United Netherlands and Switzerland would still exist after all) but you'd have the classic Franco-German border covered.

And seeing the weird cultural mix happening in that state, chances are that it could become neutral and not join a united Germany (in case the German Confederation ceases to exist) or re-join France (in case they have a resurgence).
 
If Bavaria gets the Rhineland in 1815, instead of Prussia, and this later develops into a southwest German state by uniting with the other neighboring states.
 
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