How would you best reform Austria-Hungary?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by sirjackalot, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. sirjackalot Active Member

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    With a POD of January 1st, 1900, what would you do to best reform A-H into a stable functioning country/empire?

    I'm sure everyone here is aware of how much of a cluster fuck Austria-Hungary is. The total dysfunction of that country leads to WW1 which leads to WW2, which resulted in over 100 million deaths. But if we could go back in time to try to stabilize the country what would be the best approach?

    Would the triple monarchy work? As most know Franz Ferdinand wanted to make this happen but Hungary would of bitterly opposed this.

    There is also the well known United States of Greater Austria. But once again, the Hungarians would strongly be against this, even more so than the Triple Monarchy.

    If Franz Ferdinand was never assassinated, would he be able to peacefully reform the empire? Or was Austria-Hungary just doomed to fail.

    Finally, is there any hope for a realistic scenario where Austria-Hungary partitions itself without mass bloodshed?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  2. Historymaster Well-Known Member

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    With this PoD it's very difficult but Franz Ferdinand could make it work if there is no World War.
     
  3. BigBlueBox Well-Known Member

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    Nobody of any political importance supported the "USGA" Plan, and even they did such a radical alteration to the status quo would likely damage stability even further. A triple monarchy with Bohemia is politically impossible due to German nationalism (and Franz Ferdinand wouldn't support it anyways) and a triple monarchy with Croatia would only marginally stabilize the empire. That being said, Austria-Hungary even without any reform would still be stable enough to not collapse on its own. It took four years of total war to fall apart.
     
  4. sirjackalot Active Member

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    I'm sure without a major war it would have been able to limp along for some time but how long? EVENTUALLY the other minority groups would rise up. The political structure of A-H wasn't suitable for long term stability. They would have to reform eventually.
     
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  5. Vercigentorix Chieftain of the Meek

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    Frankly , there was little need for reform, the Austrian half was heading towards government by the House of deputies{which had 203 members , 54 from the Kingdom of Bohemia alone } and Hungary was content with the 1867 compromise[they would never share their equal status with the others].
    If there was no ww1 or an alternate war in the Balkans or with Russia , FF[nephew of Franz-Joseph not his son] would give even more autonomy to the diets of the 15 Austrian crownlands and increase the participation of the Imperial council in government.


    My POD would be the death of Franz-Joseph in 1901 not 1900, because if we have joseph die before ferdinand gives up the right of his children to inherit the crowns, the succession could be disputed especially in Hungary where nationalists could legally proclaim Charles as heir to Franz-Ferdinands Hungarian crown.

    . The new Emperor FF would never declare war on Serbia, that little state sponsor of terrorism,so as consequences of no ww1 alongside A-H surviving we would see :
    1. Russia growing strong again.
    2. France narrowing the power gap between itself and Germany.
    3. Britain maintaining its alliance with Japan as Russia would be a potential threat to India again.
    4. Germany fearful of France-Russia expanding their army at the expense of the navy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  6. Dorknought Well-Known Member

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    The Ausgleich negotiations are due 1917. With the Russian standing army projected to expand from 1.3 million men in 1914 to 1.9 million men in 1918, why would Hungary be rocking the boat.
     
  7. JSchafer Banned

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    Crush the Hungarians with help of Ukrainians Slovaks Romanians and Croatians. There’s many peoples chafing under their rule who Hungarians unjustly oppress
     
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  8. David T Well-Known Member

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  9. BigBlueBox Well-Known Member

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    When will this stupid meme die? Austria-Hungary was destroyed by the Austrians. Austrian ego put Europe on the path to war with the annexation of Bosnia. The Italo-Turkish war, the Balkan Wars, WWI, Italy dropping out of the Triple Alliance - all of this can be traced back to Austrian greed. What’s next? Will people claim that the British Empire should have destroyed the Hindus with the help of the Muslims and Buddhists?
     
  10. Nephi Well-Known Member

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    Well I'd go with a version of the United States of Austria, but only in the Austrian half until eventually I could put pressure on Hungary to do the same, Croatia, Transylvania, and Slovakia would all join their place, I'd offer Hungary the chance to accept these reforms peacefully and that they could retain their greater Hungary too, sorta, its the USA (Austria) and the USH (Hungary) something more like a confederation between these two, but a union of equals within each of their borders.

    Also I'd give Serbia Herzegovina, the rest of Bosnia goes to Croatia and the unquestionably rights to use Neum unrestricted, hell I'd even build them proper port facilities.
     
  11. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    Russia had no need to support Serbia, it's on them for turning yet another Balkan War to the Great War
     
  12. Vercigentorix Chieftain of the Meek

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    Greed ? They were a sovereign state seeking to maintain the integrity of their territory by removing this state sponsor of terrorism from their backyard. The compromise elevated the Hungarians on equal footing with Austria and THEY were the greedy ones and did not want to share this status with the other kingdoms.

    It was destroyed by foreign powers XD
    When will this stupid meme die ? The USA ,UK FRANCE have never faced the pressure A-H faced and they endured for four years.
     
  13. RMcD94 Well-Known Member

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    Austromarxism
     
  14. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    First, they had tons of problem before the war, there is a reason if they thought that military removing Serbia (and put down a peg Russia) will have greatly helped.
    Second, sure they have a three front war...but Serbia and France had lot more higher % of deaths for population and the bulk of the fight happened in their territories, so they are not that solid rock nations even because without massive German help they had be forced to fold long before the armistice
     
  15. JSchafer Banned

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    Hungarians single handedly hampered AH in every single effort it made. Funding the navy. Feeding the people. Reforming the army. Building the ships. Oppressing minorities. All o it can be traced to Hungarians who somehow believed that if AH falls apart they’ll get to keep their pretty little kingdom in its entire borders. Then they got Trianoned. Hell they even hoarded food supplies and refused to release them to the rest of the empire. When ships were built for the navy they insisted on building a third of them despite not having the facilities. When army reform came they opposed it. Army funding they opposed it.

    And what greed would that be? Serbia smuggled weapons into Bosnia and incited Serbs to kill other groups and rise up against Austria. Then they killed a heir to the throne because he wanted to give Slavs equal standing and rights.
     
  16. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    Personally I always blamed the Serbs mostly for WW1. In second place is Russia. They should have simply sat by as A-H slapped down Serbia for its backing of terrorist groups.
     
  17. lukedalton Well-Known Member

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    FF killing was just an excuse (nobody, his family included, like him), many, Conrad first, clamored for a first strike against Serbia (or Italy)...so it was just a matter of time before someone in Wien find another reason
     
  18. JSchafer Banned

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    Austria didn’t want war nor did it have anything to gain from it. As for excuse imagine Germans killing crown prince of Britain and then middle fingering the UK about freedom to colonize.
     
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  19. Johnrankins Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, that said there is no denying that Serbia was supporting terrorism so they reaped what they sowed.
     
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  20. jsb Well-Known Member

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    I do have to ask why AH would really need (large) ships?

    Would AH not have been far better off ignoring dreadnoughts and building a light coastal defence force leaving spending the saved money on land systems like more MGs and heavy guns or potentially even better dual use industrial development?