How would the wheel change the Americas?

I'm not looking for an Indian wank TL. This is a thread asking for what the realistic impact of the wheel would have on Indian technology and society. IOTL the Olmecs had access the wheel but used it only for toys. What if they or some other early Mesoamerica culture had managed to develop it into handcarts, pottery wheels, and maize grind wheels?

Maize grinders would save labour, pottery wheels increase output, and handcarts improve transportation and expand the size of agricultural land around the city. The societies to benefit immediatly would be the Mesoamerican city builders. I think also the stunted Mississipian cities may have risen to match the sophistication of the Valley of Mexico. The agricultural sphere of the American southwest may expand into southern California, transforming it into settled communities rather than nomadic ones. Perhaps the Carribean would also be more developed as well.

I'm not sure the wheel would be adopted in South America given the traditional geographical bottleneck at the isthmus of Panama.
 
Now llama-drawn chariot cavalry is a distinct possibility. Pizarro better watch his ass before he screws with the Incas now... :p
 
Now llama-drawn chariot cavalry is a distinct possibility. Pizarro better watch his ass before he screws with the Incas now... :p

Funny image;). Llama-pulled carts could dramatically improve Andean economy-if appropriately widened roads and bridges can be built. A I understand it, Andean transportation infrastructure was basically sophisiticated hiking paths. Perhaps small one-llama carts?
 
Funny image;). Llama-pulled carts could dramatically improve Andean economy-if appropriately widened roads and bridges can be built. A I understand it, Andean transportation infrastructure was basically sophisiticated hiking paths. Perhaps small one-llama carts?
That is kind of correct. But they were as sophisticated as our most sophisticated ones today.
The wheel would be useful in and around the Andean cities, but for longer trips there would be several problems. Many of the paths stretched over cliffs and gaps that were over 100 feet in length and several thousand feet straight down. They used rope bridges because llama's and people could cross them. Wheeled carts could not. Its important to remember that without modern age technology and metals, many of these gaps are virtually impossible to cover with anything more solid than ropes.
So helpful in the Andes, but not a godsend for long travel.

Where wheels would be most useful is in non-tropical Mexico and the prairies.
These areas are flat enough that they wouldn't need to build extensive roads, clear away forests or worry about swamps. Along the Mississippi, carts would be useful, but due to the swamps, thick forests and less people it would be like the Andes and the wheel would be most useful in the immediate area.
In Mexico there were enough people who could be made to pull wagons that a transportation network would be feasible. This would encourage trade between cities in things other than slaves, light cargo and luxury items.
In the prairies they already had dogs pulling travois, put wheels on and you have a dog wagon. There was already an extensive trade in shells, pigments and some luxury items amongst the plains Indians and the tribes they met. The wheel would encourage further trade, and allow them to travel faster with more items. The light dog wagons could probably even travel through the desert relatively easily. With a large wagon pulled by oxen or horses, if it gets stuck in sand its going to be hard to get out. A dog wagon would be about 100 to 200 pounds, maybe 300 pounds at most. A strong man could lift that up to get it moving again by himself.
This means that a true trade route to Mexico could occur. Fresh water pearls, dried venison, furs, and other things from the north; cotton, seeds (that may or may not grow), obsidian and some soft metals, and cocoa from the south.
The transfusion of ideas would be especially valuable in this situation.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Llamas are shitty draft animals; llama drawn chariots would still be pretty limited imo. And cavalry they would not be.
(Besides cavalry chariots are pretty bad, require a rider and a driver to work, and with llamas you'd have to have a really enormous crew of them)
 
I wonder if,given a thousand years, the northern plains Indians could have selectively bred a smaller more tractable bison for draft purposes?
 
I wonder if,given a thousand years, the northern plains Indians could have selectively bred a smaller more tractable bison for draft purposes?

I'd suspect a larger and primarily vegetarian dog, rather. Some of the small, tough breeds from Continental Europe that are so beloved today were used for treadmill work historically. You could scale that up easily, and dogs can thrive on a mostly vegetarian diet. They're just picky eaters, pickier even than humans.
 
In Mesoamerica wheels would not make a big difference. That's why they didn't use them for anything but toys IOTL. No draft animals to pull carts, and people can still carry a bigger load with tumplines than by pushing a wheelbarrow.
 
In Mesoamerica wheels would not make a big difference. That's why they didn't use them for anything but toys IOTL. No draft animals to pull carts, and people can still carry a bigger load with tumplines than by pushing a wheelbarrow.

Pushing a wheelbarrow yes, pushing or pulling a wagon is different. The biggest problem is just showing that there is a use for it. The first few wagons they may make would be primitive wheelbarrows, so as you say not much use. If they hit on a good design fairly quickly there may be enough enthusiasm to make a good wagon that would be useful.
 
Where wheels would be most useful is in non-tropical Mexico and the prairies.
These areas are flat enough that they wouldn't need to build extensive roads, clear away forests or worry about swamps.

prairies may be (mostly) flat, but they are hardly good for hand-pulled carts. You'd be lugging those carts through high and irregular stands of bunchgrass, buffalo wallows, gullies, etc. Without a big draft animal to pull a cart, it's tough going. The natives would have to make some roads of some kind to move those carts around...
 
prairies may be (mostly) flat, but they are hardly good for hand-pulled carts. You'd be lugging those carts through high and irregular stands of bunchgrass, buffalo wallows, gullies, etc. Without a big draft animal to pull a cart, it's tough going. The natives would have to make some roads of some kind to move those carts around...

I'd say that's not a given. Central Asian nomads used carts extensively, despite the steppe hardly being easy terrain. They had different expectations of what trael meant backthen. For the Native Americans, even more so: a slow, lumbering pushcart could move more than four people could on their backs.
 
As already mentioned, the general absence of large domestic animals (except llamas in Peru) would probably mean the wheel would not have much influence in transportation.

Probably much more use would be other applications of the wheel principle, such as pulleys, gears, potters wheels, water wheels, mills, etc.
 
In Mesoamerica wheels would not make a big difference. That's why they didn't use them for anything but toys IOTL. No draft animals to pull carts, and people can still carry a bigger load with tumplines than by pushing a wheelbarrow.

I disagree. Chinese wheelbarrows are used for carrying up to 300 lbs on long journeys.

DP154010.jpg


prairies may be (mostly) flat, but they are hardly good for hand-pulled carts. You'd be lugging those carts through high and irregular stands of bunchgrass, buffalo wallows, gullies, etc. Without a big draft animal to pull a cart, it's tough going. The natives would have to make some roads of some kind to move those carts around...

Except the Mormons did exactly that, moving settlers with handcarts from Iowa to Utah with mostly handcarts.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_handcart_pioneers
 
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I was just thinking, if the Mayans had the wheel the Mayan world would likely expand both west and south. This would displace other cultures in the valley of Mexico and prevent their rise. Also the Mayan collapse may be avoided since they have a much larger, and more interconnected world. The collapse of one region in Guatemala would have little effect on Mayan Nicaragua.
 
Wheelbarrows and handcarts would be very handy over short distances, within cities rather than between them. I also wonder about the development of things like block and tackle if the wheel took off. I'd really like to see Cortez fighting against mechanical seige engines, wheeled around and cocked by pulley and gears.
 
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