How would the Aztecs and/or Incas have used gunpowder?

I've seen a few threads about Romans and gunpowder but how would either of these American Empires used it if they had discovered the formula?

Not to mention if they had had it upon contact by Europeans.
 
Oh man are you in for a treat

Regarding the Aztecs, I can see them using fireworks for celebrations. The people who coined the phrase "Drunk as 400 rabbits" could probably be counted on to throw a cool party with the latest technology.

Militarily, I can see them using rockets as a seige weapon, firing them over the walls of cities from people who resisted them to cause fires and panic. The Aztec empire was a tribute empire where they relied on the economy of those they conquered to continue working, so I don't see them using an equivalent of guns to cause mass casualties and wipe out large groups of people-they just did not have the incentive.
 
Oh man are you in for a treat

Regarding the Aztecs, I can see them using fireworks for celebrations. The people who coined the phrase "Drunk as 400 rabbits" could probably be counted on to throw a cool party with the latest technology.

Militarily, I can see them using rockets as a seige weapon, firing them over the walls of cities from people who resisted them to cause fires and panic.

Did the cities in the region have walls?


The Aztec empire was a tribute empire where they relied on the economy of those they conquered to continue working, so I don't see them using an equivalent of guns to cause mass casualties and wipe out large groups of people-they just did not have the incentive.

1st, they did not have metallurgy level allowing to produce the guns and, 2nd, you are right about them not willing to produce casualties: they needed prisoners alive for the sacrifices.
 
Did the cities in the region have walls?

Even if they weren't built with walls, one assumes they'd use improvised barriers when defending cities during a war. Pretty basic tactic given an urbanized society.

Perhaps grenades would also be useful, for when the Aztecs feel they've got enough prisoners, or something.
 
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Even if they weren't built with walls, one assumes they'd use improvised barriers when defending cities during a war. Pretty basic tactic given an urbanized society.

That's possible. At least presumable there were barricades during the siege of Tenochtitlan.

Perhaps grenades would also be useful, for when the Aztecs feel they've got enough prisoners, or something.

Well, they were getting as many prisoners as they needed by the "flowers wars" (or whatever is the right term) so short of the pyrotechnical effect, the practical usefulness with framework of the traditional Aztec warfare would be questionable.
 
Well, they were getting as many prisoners as they needed by the "flowers wars" (or whatever is the right term) so short of the pyrotechnical effect, the practical usefulness with framework of the traditional Aztec warfare would be questionable.

Well, both the Chinese and the Byzantines seem to have used them, so apparently they had their place. And even without good metalworking, ceramic containers would do.
 
Oh man are you in for a treat

Regarding the Aztecs, I can see them using fireworks for celebrations. The people who coined the phrase "Drunk as 400 rabbits" could probably be counted on to throw a cool party with the latest technology.

Militarily, I can see them using rockets as a seige weapon, firing them over the walls of cities from people who resisted them to cause fires and panic. The Aztec empire was a tribute empire where they relied on the economy of those they conquered to continue working, so I don't see them using an equivalent of guns to cause mass casualties and wipe out large groups of people-they just did not have the incentive.
I remind Robert when saw the title, RIP old confederated troll...
 
Well, both the Chinese and the Byzantines seem to have used them, so apparently they had their place. And even without good metalworking, ceramic containers would do.

The Chinese most probably used them but it clearly did not work effectively against the Mongols and I did not see any convincing evidence of the gunpowder being used by the Mongols in Europe. Never heard about the Byzantines using the gunpowder before it was "officially introduced" in Europe.
 
The Chinese most probably used them but it clearly did not work effectively against the Mongols and I did not see any convincing evidence of the gunpowder being used by the Mongols in Europe. Never heard about the Byzantines using the gunpowder before it was "officially introduced" in Europe.
Not gunpowder, but IIRC they had grenades with some flammable mix (I think Greek Fire but not sure).
 
The Chinese most probably used them but it clearly did not work effectively against the Mongols and I did not see any convincing evidence of the gunpowder being used by the Mongols in Europe. Never heard about the Byzantines using the gunpowder before it was "officially introduced" in Europe.
You would think they'd get it before the Italians from the Turks. But like you said, I haven't heard that being the case.
 
The Aztecs would have used gunpowder to make "stun grenades". The goal of Aztec warfare was to take prisoners to sacrifice to their God's.
 
The Aztecs would have used gunpowder to make "stun grenades". The goal of Aztec warfare was to take prisoners to sacrifice to their God's.
The goal of Aztec warfare was to extend the state and reduce neighbors to the status of vassals or tributaries to fill their coffers, all the focus on Aztecs taking prisoners for sacrifice is pure sensationalism that's meant to treat a historical civilization as some strange, exotic other worthy only of extinction.
 
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I've seen a few threads about Romans and gunpowder but how would either of these American Empires used it if they had discovered the formula?

Not to mention if they had had it upon contact by Europeans.
My understanding is that the Aztecs did figure out how cavalry worked, so maybe if they'd mastered gunpowder they could have evened the odds a bit against the Spanish. That's assuming they used gunpowder in the form of firearms.
 
My understanding is that the Aztecs did figure out how cavalry worked, so maybe if they'd mastered gunpowder they could have evened the odds a bit against the Spanish. That's assuming they used gunpowder in the form of firearms.

Did they figure out cavalry? They sure didn’t show that at Otumba. Maybe you’re thinking about the Incas, because I think I have heard that argument about them.
 
You would think they'd get it before the Italians from the Turks. But like you said, I haven't heard that being the case.

Presumably, the 1st guns in Europe appeared around the mid-XIV in Spain on the Arab side but it does not look like they managed to make serious further developments in that area. If this theory is correct, than spreading of the artillery was from the West to the East which would make the "Turks" as a source more or less irrelevant. Anyway, IIRC, the great Ottoman guns used during the siege of Constantinople had been cast by an Italian (or German or Hungarian). By that time the Byzantines already had the artillery, which presumably helped to force the Ottomans to abandon the 1st siege of Constantinople in 1396. But this is well past period the conversation was about.

Not sure how much truth is in the claims about their Chinese origins (outside the movies about Genghis Khan) or that the 1st cannons ever being used by the Mamluks at the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260 (this one was authored by a modern Palestinian/Syrian/Canadian historian of Arabic and Islamic science and technology and refuted by numerous other historians). ;)

But anyway, it took approximately a century of development for the cannons evolving from being almost exclusively siege weapon to them becoming an effective weapon of the field battles (presumably the French had been using some cannons as siege weapons during the War of Saint-Sardos in 1324 and the artillery was critical winning factor in the battle of Fromigny, 1450).
 
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