How would music develop in a world without rock and roll?

Would you like to see a timeline exploring such a world?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • No

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 9 45.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .
Whether it be the death of one or more figures such as Robert Johnson, Elvis Presley, or Chuck Berry before they ever write or record their music; or an ASB preventing the fusion of blues, country, and/or R&B into a coherent genre we would recognize today as early rock music; say that somehow, the genre of rock and roll is, for all intents and purposes, completely butterflied. How ASB is such a premise with a PoD in the 1930s?

I'm not here to ask about some of the political ramifications of this (such as the butterfly effect on the Counterculture movement, if it even exists in this hypothetical ATL), but possibilities thrown in would be greatly appreciated.

I am, however, going to ask how music in general would develop in the absence of rock and roll. Does electronic music eventually fill in the "void" left behind? Do we even get disco? What else changes, or might change? The fifties probably stay mostly the same, I imagine, but is there anything I might be missing? Any thoughts?
 

Marc

Donor
Rock & Roll is clearly an organic outgrowth of the Blues, and there are precursors of that evolution in popular music going back to 1920's. I think you would have to somehow remove the Blues from American music - which really would be impossible - to forestall Rock.
And, likely, stop or seriously hinder the rise of electrified musical instruments, an integral part of the sound of R&R and its success.
Now the timing is a whole other possibility. You could possibly construct a more socially liberal post-war attitude that allows the survival of Swing as the predominant popular music form. And perhaps Ellington et al taking in the Blues instead of looking towards a formal structure. That might postpone the rise of Rock, changing names and some characteristics along the way; but that is about as far as I can see it going.
 
Rock & Roll is clearly an organic outgrowth of the Blues, and there are precursors of that evolution in popular music going back to 1920's. I think you would have to somehow remove the Blues from American music - which really would be impossible - to forestall Rock.

Most definitely impossible to remove without a point of divergence probably earlier than the 19th century, with many of the roots of Blues coming from the Deep South from the African-American population there. Though this would have so many implications on modern music that not even I could probably imagine every little detail that would go into it, but it might be fun.


And, likely, stop or seriously hinder the rise of electrified musical instruments, an integral part of the sound of R&R and its success.

Without electrocuting Leon Theremin to the point where he's scared of even messing with the idea of electronic instruments, this might be a little difficult.


Now the timing is a whole other possibility. You could possibly construct a more socially liberal post-war attitude that allows the survival of Swing as the predominant popular music form. And perhaps Ellington et al taking in the Blues instead of looking towards a formal structure. That might postpone the rise of Rock, changing names and some characteristics along the way; but that is about as far as I can see it going.

This confirms that without broad changes to the history of America or the general trends, alien space bats would most likely need to intervene to prevent the rise of rock (the way we're generally familiar with it) with the circumstances I had originally thought out. This has been very helpful in helping retcon a few things with the outline I already have.
 
No rock means no Disco, which means no electronic music. Hip Hop and RnB also never come into existence. That leaves you with Country, Orchestra, Blues, Jazz and whatever else was there.
 
No rock means no Disco, which means no electronic music. Hip Hop and RnB also never come into existence. That leaves you with Country, Orchestra, Blues, Jazz and whatever else was there.

Disco came from R&B, but modern electronic music owes a huge debt to non-disco acts like Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream, who admittedly were heavily influenced by psychedelic and progressive rock, but also by older electronic music. Modernist classical music had been experimenting with electronic instrumentation for a while by that point (composers like Varèse and Stockhausen) too. Avoiding electronic dance music is pretty much impossible, since someone will get the idea to make it more accessible and danceable.
 
No rock means no Disco, which means no electronic music. Hip Hop and RnB also never come into existence. That leaves you with Country, Orchestra, Blues, Jazz and whatever else was there.
About that whatever else was there that Don´t have Rock and Roll influences you have:

Son Cubano
Rumba
Mambo
Salsa
Merengue
Chachacha
Cumbia
Tango
Samba
Bossa Nova (grow from Jazz and samba)
Batucadas
Bolero
Bachata
Boogie-woogie(sing in english) and Boogalo(sing in spanish)
Calypso
SKA
Murga

All the previously mentioned musical stiles were pretty popular or are popular nowadays, and have minimal influence from the Rock and roll and were born from musical traditions different from the USA ones

And that is without enter to the more traditional and folkloric music styles that are still pretty popular in Latinamerica, you have a lot from were to choose

Edit
And then we enter to the African musical Traditions that have little to none Rock and roll influences:
Soukous
Palm-wine
Highlife
Morna
Ambasse Bay
Kizomba
 
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No rock means no Disco, which means no electronic music.

You still have the preWWII Hammond Organs with the Leslie cabinets, followed by the Mellotron and full synthesizer shortly afterwards


You can miss '50s Rock, and still end up with Prog Rock, that will lead to Electronica and the rest
 
You can miss '50s Rock, and still end up with Prog Rock, that will lead to Electronica and the rest

Debateable. Most prog rock (and most all the popular 70s prog bands) has obvious psych rock influences, and would that exist without 50s rock? Perhaps, but it would certainly be different.

The jazzier side of prog rock is of course less affected, which might leave TTL with the interesting scenario where cult acts like Magma are just as famous as Yes or ELP are TTL.
 
Rock music really can't be tied to a single or even several individuals. Removing important figures will only result in minor cosmetic differences. And considering that the term "rock" and the phrase "rock and roll" was already being used in the 30s and 40s*, it's not at all unlikely that some variation could be used to idenitify the style.

Rather than butterflying RnR altogether, diminishing it's popularity would be easier to do, although even that would require a significant departure with very wide ranging social repercussions. The first idea that comes to mind is somehow preventing the great migration in a manner that would keep the musical precursors, and then the style itself, regionally limited and confined.

* See for example:
Ella Fitzgerald's 1938 song "Rock It For Me", with the lyrics "Won't you satisfy my soul, With the rock and roll?"
Buddy Jones's 1939 song "Rockin' Rollin' Mama", eith the lyrics "Rockin' rollin' mama, I love the way you rock and roll".
A review of Vaughan Monroe's 1942 "Coming Out Party" that refers to it as "a riff tune in the rock and roll rhythm style".
 
@Lenwe there’s also Mbira from Zimbabwe which has no rock n roll influence and is infectious dance music.

@Osakadave the earliest reference is ‘My Man Rocks me with a solid Roll’ from 1922 by blues singer Trixie Smith, which also had some elements of Rock n Roll like a backbeat but was much slower.

Very difficult to stop it from happening.
 
I only know the musical instrument, could you kindly give a source on the Dance?
I’ve only ever seen it live when I’ve been at private functions in Zimbabwe such as weddings and birthdays. I’ve got some pictures on my computer at home but I’m working away at present and posting on my phone.
 
The emergence of rock-and-roll coincides with the quantum leap in audio recording technology from the early fifties to the late sixties. It was inevitable to spread music forms that took advantage of the whole audio spectrum. Recordings in the late forties were very lacking in fidelity. Tape recording revolutionized the industry in the mid fifties, as it became possible to produce LP records (invented in the forties) with tracks recorded in different sessions. In came Dolby noise reductions c.1962 and original master tapes could produce some very high quality recordings. By 1968, recording studios had many redundant microphones and tape decks (24 became standard), creating a new art of audio engineering/mixing, etc. The early fifties became a brief void period in popular music because the big bands became too costly for clubs. Small bands and recordings would fill the gap by the mid fifties.
 
@Osakadave the earliest reference is ‘My Man Rocks me with a solid Roll’ from 1922 by blues singer Trixie Smith, which also had some elements of Rock n Roll like a backbeat but was much slower.

Very difficult to stop it from happening.


Yep. It's found even earlier...

http://www.littlewonderrecords.com/LW 339.mp3

And the best analogy I've seen on the question of the origins of RnR is that the question is rather like the question of exactly when did one get fat. (One song/dessert at a time!)

The emergence of rock-and-roll coincides with the quantum leap in audio recording technology from the early fifties to the late sixties. It was inevitable to spread music forms that took advantage of the whole audio spectrum. Recordings in the late forties were very lacking in fidelity. Tape recording revolutionized the industry in the mid fifties, as it became possible to produce LP records (invented in the forties) with tracks recorded in different sessions. In came Dolby noise reductions c.1962 and original master tapes could produce some very high quality recordings. By 1968, recording studios had many redundant microphones and tape decks (24 became standard), creating a new art of audio engineering/mixing, etc. The early fifties became a brief void period in popular music because the big bands became too costly for clubs. Small bands and recordings would fill the gap by the mid fifties.

There's also the effect of the 78s vs the 45s.

By the time R&B was becoming heard on radio stations, the 78 RPM format had just recently been replaced by the new 45 RPM records. Radio stations had just bought all new records and dumped out the old ones, since the 78's were heavy and cumbersome, and broke easily. By 1951 and 1952, the only demo records being shipped to radio DJ's were the new 45's. Unfortunately, all the early R&B had been recorded on the old 78's, so when R&B started being played on the radio, these 78's were already in the dumpster. Later on, when "golden oldies" were being played, that meant old 45's, since the 78's had long since been discarded. So, these Hoy Hoy era 78's were never played much on the radio.

In addition, there is the story of the juke box. In 1950 and 1951, most of the juke boxes in wealthier neighborhoods were being upgraded to play the 45's, while most R&B records were still being issued mainly on 78. The 45 RPM format was introduced in 1949 on RCA Victor, and other labels converted in the early 50's, but many labels continued to produce 78's as late as 1959, especially for the R&B market. This is because most black people did not have the disposable income to go out and buy new record players that played 45's, and juke box operators typically didn't convert the juke boxes in black neighborhoods right away either. (This story is also true for hillbilly or "country" music, since country music fans were also typically poor). Thus, Hoy Hoy era R&B was caught in the trap of being among the last records issues on a doomed format, and most of this music was lost to the newer world of the 45 RPM listener.
http://www.hoyhoy.com/dawn_of_rock.htm

(BTW, that site also has a very nice list of early artists and music.)
 
The emergence of rock-and-roll coincides with the quantum leap in audio recording technology from the early fifties to the late sixties. It was inevitable to spread music forms that took advantage of the whole audio spectrum. Recordings in the late forties were very lacking in fidelity. Tape recording revolutionized the industry in the mid fifties, as it became possible to produce LP records (invented in the forties) with tracks recorded in different sessions. In came Dolby noise reductions c.1962 and original master tapes could produce some very high quality recordings. By 1968, recording studios had many redundant microphones and tape decks (24 became standard), creating a new art of audio engineering/mixing, etc. The early fifties became a brief void period in popular music because the big bands became too costly for clubs. Small bands and recordings would fill the gap by the mid fifties.

Beatles did their early work on two track tape recorders little different from the AEG Magnetophon that everybody copied after 1945
 

Marc

Donor
The emergence of rock-and-roll coincides with the quantum leap in audio recording technology from the early fifties to the late sixties. It was inevitable to spread music forms that took advantage of the whole audio spectrum. Recordings in the late forties were very lacking in fidelity. Tape recording revolutionized the industry in the mid fifties, as it became possible to produce LP records (invented in the forties) with tracks recorded in different sessions. In came Dolby noise reductions c.1962 and original master tapes could produce some very high quality recordings. By 1968, recording studios had many redundant microphones and tape decks (24 became standard), creating a new art of audio engineering/mixing, etc. The early fifties became a brief void period in popular music because the big bands became too costly for clubs. Small bands and recordings would fill the gap by the mid fifties.

Very good points, although I would observe that audio sound quality in and of itself was a minor factor for the vast bulk of music fans. Personally, I blame radio, not intentionally but effectively, for a widespread decline in what a friend of mine likes to call "good ears" - the ability to distinguish and appreciate aural quality, regardless of the musical genre. My friend's definition isn't elitist - being sensitive to good sound is like being able to enjoy a good steak, and knowing that is good. But if you've never had a decent cut of beef, only leathery, tough meats throughout your life, then you're unlikely to realize what you've missed; worse, even when a filet mignon is placed before you, you just shrug, ask for the ketchup, and wonder why is it so damned expensive - your palate isn't gone, it just never had a chance. Music is the same.
Why does he think that before radio we listened "better"? Live music was the norm, and playing music yourself was much more commonplace - both endeavors exercise the ear, so to speak.

FM radio eventually provided decent to good quality audio music for the general public. But after a generation of lowered expectations, it was a bit late. Sadly, still is.
Doubt that? The most popular recorded music format is MP3, a sound barely, just barely above mediocre (ask any serious musician, in confidence).
 
Doubt that? The most popular recorded music format is MP3, a sound barely, just barely above mediocre (ask any serious musician, in confidence).

I'd like to rant on the vinyl aficionados, when the far superior Reel to Reel format was available, and the quad track on that was awesome for early surround sound experience.
 
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