How would Italy becoming a major power impact its diaspora population?

Let’s say after unification Italy is more successful at expanding. Going into the 1900s it is a respectable power. It is able to come out of the world wars better off. They country can be unified whatever way you think is best as long as it is around the same period as otl. You can also start with a later pod if you want involving the world wars. The few rules are Italy has to be a superpower or at least powerful to push back against USSR and US influence by the post world war 2 era at latest. Italy must at least have Libya, Eritrea, Ethiopia, and Somalia. Also, the diaspora population has to be as big as it was as otl or if you want to make it interesting more. What impact would this have on the Italian population abroad especially in countries like the US and Argentina?
 
I thought Italy was one of the great powers? Just not very good at it. Major player in wwi, colonial power, prevented Austrian annexation, desired by the western allies to contain Germany until Ethiopia. What more could they do. Anyway my grandparents and great grandparents had a low opinion of Mussolini, I suppose Italian Americans primarily from southern Italy, who have traditionally not benefited from what when on up north wouldn’t be much different in feelings this time, unless great power Italy is so fabulously wealthy they have no reason to leave.
 
The few rules are Italy has to be a superpower or at least powerful to push back against USSR and US influence by the post world war 2 era at latest.

Superpower is impossible without Wankium, a genuine Great Power definitely possible.

Also, the diaspora population has to be as big as it was as otl or if you want to make it interesting more. What impact would this have on the Italian population abroad especially in countries like the US and Argentina?

The point is, if Italy grows that fast at least less people than OTL would go abroad - internal and colonial migration would be preferred. Handwaving that, the result would be the emergence of prouder, but also less integrated/respected communities than OTL; they'd be torn between the old and the new homes, especially if the Italian leaders are adamant on courting them.
 
Superpower is impossible without Wankium, a genuine Great Power definitely possible.



The point is, if Italy grows that fast at least less people than OTL would go abroad - internal and colonial migration would be preferred. Handwaving that, the result would be the emergence of prouder, but also less integrated/respected communities than OTL; they'd be torn between the old and the new homes, especially if the Italian leaders are adamant on courting them.
Great power and even superpower doesn’t always relate to living standards. Southern Italy still could be treated poorly even if it is industrialized. They treated the region as a colony. A lot of immigration could still come from there.
 
I thought Italy was one of the great powers? Just not very good at it. Major player in wwi, colonial power, prevented Austrian annexation, desired by the western allies to contain Germany until Ethiopia. What more could they do. Anyway my grandparents and great grandparents had a low opinion of Mussolini, I suppose Italian Americans primarily from southern Italy, who have traditionally not benefited from what when on up north wouldn’t be much different in feelings this time, unless great power Italy is so fabulously wealthy they have no reason to leave.
Great power comparable to the UK, Kaiserreich, or even France.
 
Great power and even superpower doesn’t always relate to living standards. Southern Italy still could be treated poorly even if it is industrialized. They treated the region as a colony. A lot of immigration could still come from there.

Yes, but if the North is that rich, people will go there instead of abroad.
 
Yes, but if the North is that rich, people will go there instead of abroad.
Why would power match living standards? A nation can have a strong economy and military while having a lot of people still living in poor conditions. Look at China. A lot of drops in immigration in the 1900s has more to do with restrictions on emigration and immigration by countries. The US has never really had the same amount of immigration percentage wise it had before 1914. A lot more people would have immigrated from the USSR if given a chance. In OTL, the Soviet Jews left when given the ability too. The USSR was a superpower that would have experience emigration if not for restrictions on movement. This is one reason emigration increased greatly after the Cold War.

Also, Italy could still have its otl emigration from unification until the 50s or 60s depending on the pod. Italy transition to a serious great power does not have to be done all at once. Italy who either avoids the destruction of the world wars or can play both sides while avoiding war with a major power could become a serious power by default. Honestly, if they avoid the population drain of these conflicts they could experience overcrowding in Italy which leads to more Italians going to the colonies and America. Until oil is found most Italians still might prefer going to the US over Libya. Also if they avoid these conflicts and depending on how they go down, Italy could have to deal with refugees, displaced people, and immigrants from war torn regions in Europe.
 

Kaze

Banned
Considering that in IRL the US Government asked Lucky Charlie Luciano's help to invade Sicily in World War Two - there might not much love in the diaspora population.
 
Considering that in IRL the US Government asked Lucky Charlie Luciano's help to invade Sicily in World War Two - there might not much love in the diaspora population.
Doesn’t that depend on the pod? I have the feeling your hinting at Italy under Mussolini and fascism? In that situation, yes many Italian Americans will hate Mussolini and fascist Italy but that will be mostly southern Italians and Sicilians not their northern counterparts as much. Italian Americans with northern roots were much more open or accepting towards fascist Italy especially since they targeted the mafia heavily. Those Italian American organizations were often run by northern Italians who hated the mafia and depiction it gave them since most Americans lumped all Italians together back then. The Italian American organization before ww2 often praised Mussolini and fascism.

Due to the American government history with the mafia, I could see the government using the Italian mafia to deal with any fascist supporters within their Italian communities if relations with Italy aren’t good. Mafisos will have no issue killing and beating fascist Italian American especially the ones who fled the mafisos purges in Italy. For Sicilians and some southern Italians Mussolini would be viewed the same way as Cuban exiles view Castro.
 
Italy can only become a major power by eating away at French and UK power in the Med region, which will bring it in conflict with the USA.

Thus the effect on the diaspora pupulation of Italy becoming a major power will be that they like the German diaspora will fight harder against their former home land to prove their loyalty.
 
I have a hard time really seeing Italy doing much better, Italy have mostly its natural border, the good colonies are already taken. At most we could see a Italy also getting Tunisia, conquering Ethiopia earlier and getting some territory in the Balkan and Anatolia. While Italian Tunisia would gain settlers from Italy, and some Anatolian territory would too (through much more limited), I still think the vast majority of migrating Italian would emigrate abroad, I would personal prefer to live in Argentina or USA to most of the territories Italy could potential gain.
 
The most basic of things needed to realize the OP's premise would be Italy becoming a single state, rather than a patchwork of them, much earlier then the 1860s. It wouldn't need to happen almost all at once - I actually consider the timetable of the country's unification the most ASB thing in the whole process, and I'm Italian myself - but having Italy north of the Papal States unified by the end of the Middle Ages wouldn't be an unachievable objective. It could just as well happen as a butterfly of Charlemagne splitting his empire more sensibly in his will, using the Rhine and Alps as borders.
 
The most basic of things needed to realize the OP's premise would be Italy becoming a single state, rather than a patchwork of them, much earlier then the 1860s. It wouldn't need to happen almost all at once - I actually consider the timetable of the country's unification the most ASB thing in the whole process, and I'm Italian myself - but having Italy north of the Papal States unified by the end of the Middle Ages wouldn't be an unachievable objective. It could just as well happen as a butterfly of Charlemagne splitting his empire more sensibly in his will, using the Rhine and Alps as borders.
Nothing to too far back. Going back that far creates too many butterflies. Italy uniting under a republican or garibaldi few decades earlier is the most far I would go back with a pod. Italy under a republican government and garibaldi will likely be more powerful. But would Garibaldi be imperialist at all?
 
Italy can only become a major power by eating away at French and UK power in the Med region, which will bring it in conflict with the USA.

Thus the effect on the diaspora pupulation of Italy becoming a major power will be that they like the German diaspora will fight harder against their former home land to prove their loyalty.
That was more imposed on them because of the 2 wars the US had with Germany. It was more self preservation then loyalty.
 
Perhaps worse Franco-Italian relations leading up to WWI would lead Italy to be in the CP. This would likely result in a CP victory where Italy gains its claims in France. By this point Austria was a doomed empire, and when it fragments Austria itself would likely become part of Germany with the Italian parts becoming Italian. Italy would also gain colonial concessions at the peace. A CP Italy would probably be a lot safer from getting screwed over by its allies than OTL Italy was.

EDIT: To answer the prompt, it depends on what the economic conditions are in the places where the diaspora lives. If the US goes through a longer, harsher depression than OTL and Italy is comparatively well off, you could see some repatriation of the US Italian population, but there would need to be significant unrest and instability for that to become appealing.
 
Italy uniting under a republican or garibaldi few decades earlier is the most far I would go back with a pod.
Why exactly, aside from the stated "butterflies" reason? It's a historical reality that in the XIX century there was no Italian state capable of punching above its weight class, nor the attitude needed to do so, the same way Prussia could, so if you wanted to turn Italy into a great power the most logical solution would be having it develop as a nation apace with the rest of Western Europe.
 

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I thought Italy was one of the great powers? Just not very good at it. Major player in wwi, colonial power, prevented Austrian annexation, desired by the western allies to contain Germany until Ethiopia. What more could they do. Anyway my grandparents and great grandparents had a low opinion of Mussolini, I suppose Italian Americans primarily from southern Italy, who have traditionally not benefited from what when on up north wouldn’t be much different in feelings this time, unless great power Italy is so fabulously wealthy they have no reason to leave.
They were a regional power, weaker even than A-H. If they had avoided WW1 and the interwar expenses and then WW2, while making bank from selling to both sides and discovering oil in Libya, then they'd have the chance to become one of the greater powers in Europe. Bonus for them if they net Austria as a protectorate after WW2 and get the South American and Spanish flow of German refugee specialists to boost their industry and education. Bigger bonus if they also get the majority of pre-war liberal and Jewish German refugees and can protect them throughout WW2 and keep them afterwards.

If Italy is a pretty wealthy power as of the 1930s and they are developing the Libyan oil their OTL flow of emigrants probably go to Libya to cash in on the economic opportunity; that would be good for Italian population numbers, but probably somewhat detrimental in terms of the flow of remittence payments, which were highly helpful IOTL. WW1/2 should make up for that if Italian workers are given the opportunity to work on both sides to make up for labor both sides conscript to fight; they'd have the chance to make a lot of money for several years, send home remittances, and then come home with savings.
 
Perhaps worse Franco-Italian relations leading up to WWI would lead Italy to be in the CP. This would likely result in a CP victory where Italy gains its claims in France. By this point Austria was a doomed empire, and when it fragments Austria itself would likely become part of Germany with the Italian parts becoming Italian. Italy would also gain colonial concessions at the peace. A CP Italy would probably be a lot safer from getting screwed over by its allies than OTL Italy was.

EDIT: To answer the prompt, it depends on what the economic conditions are in the places where the diaspora lives. If the US goes through a longer, harsher depression than OTL and Italy is comparatively well off, you could see some repatriation of the US Italian population, but there would need to be significant unrest and instability for that to become appealing.
Britain not joining would also be a big help if that happens. If Italy joins the war on the central power side right away does Germany not invade Belgium since they have the Italians attacking France in the south and in the French colonies? Would France get crushed in that situation even if Germany doesn't try to go through Belgium? Italy could take Nice, Savoy, Corsina, Tunis, and French Somilialand. It could also push for everything east of the rhone river but that is probably pushing it a lot but Germany could be open to the idea. A powerful Italy would probably be used as its main ally. A lot of people on here think Italian claims would prevent this but I honestly think they could work with Germany directly to solve this. Italy and Germany come to an agreement between themselves over the question of Austria. The Italians areas of Austria will be given referendums on joining Italy or in the case of a partition or collapse of Austria-Hungary Italy and Germany come to a secret agreement on how to divide up the place. Italy isn't likely to help Austria in the war even if on the same side. This means the Austrians could still stretch and weakened greatly in the Balkans and Russia. Italy probably focuses most of its military on France. Maybe they take some islands from Greece if they join. Industrially, I was thinking of Italy having a growing and expanding industrial base but workers rights and conditions don't improve until the 50s and 60s to standards that would slow down emigration when Italy transitions into a mixed or corporatist economy but I thought the loss of manpower could be lessen to higher birthrates and less death in the wars.
 
Why exactly, aside from the stated "butterflies" reason? It's a historical reality that in the XIX century there was no Italian state capable of punching above its weight class, nor the attitude needed to do so, the same way Prussia could, so if you wanted to turn Italy into a great power the most logical solution would be having it develop as a nation apace with the rest of Western Europe.
I'm trying to keep this in the Victoria era at earliest to refine it. Going to medieval times leaves to many variables. The great power and superpower dynamic would be totally different and unrecognizable with a pod as far back as that.
 
I'm trying to keep this in the Victoria era at earliest to refine it. Going to medieval times leaves to many variables. The great power and superpower dynamic would be totally different and unrecognizable with a pod as far back as that.
Just asking because to achieve what you want in the time-frame you mentioned you'd need Italy to have quite a few lucky breaks more than what could reasonably be expected within that same time-frame.
 
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