How would a surviving Palmyrene Empire effect the world?

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What if the Palmyrene Empire continued to survive and prosper until say the 7th century? How would this effect the development of the world? What would relations be like with the Romans or Sassanids? What would become of Christianity or Islam? How would the Palmyrene Empire evolve?
 
What exactly does that mean? A small independent state helping Rome guarding the eastern border? Or what Zenobia wanted, a real empire that included Egypt and Syria?
 
I think that Palmyre surviving as the "Duchy of the East" that @Max Sinister mentioned is the more plausible survival for a distinct Palmyrenian state : Zenobia's empire was effectively a challenger for Romania's dominance like the "Gallic" Empire was in the West, and its survival would have meant becoming effectively an earlier ERE : let's remember that Zenobia and her son assumed the roman imperial title IOTL.
If not, if Palmyre remains a challenger state but is unable to grow out of more it already gained IOTL with Egypt, it would imply purely and simply a collapse of Roman authority in med, and a clear opportunity for whoever rules in Persia to takeover at least a good chunk of the region.
 
@LSCatilina

Would it be possible for Palmyra to survive as an autonomous territory within the Roman Empire sharing authority and power with the Emperor while maintaining the territorial gains it made during the crisis?
 
Would it be possible for Palmyra to survive as an autonomous territory within the Roman Empire sharing authority and power with the Emperor while maintaining the territorial gains it made during the crisis?
Aurelian seems to have never accepted the situation, and safe a real submission of Palmyre which would IMO likely take the form of giving up at least Egypt. When Aurelian would have dealt with usurpers in Gaul, the next target would always be a Palmyre with any pretense of imperial autonomy. At this point of the crisis, it would have been hard to have both a strong Palmyrenian polity in the east and a strong enough Roman Empire.
A relatively weak enough Roman Empire eventually means Zenobia could pull a Septimus Severus, so the window of opportunity is kind of reduced.

I think you might need two different pods : one where Odaenathus is spared assassination and continues his policy of cooperation with Rome while having a distinct and legal power over Oriens. The second, with a slightly worse IIIrd century, where emperors have more trouble to manage the return to order in Romania and rely more on deputies (like Odaenathus, or Carus/Numerian) which would create a systematisation of "duchies" or "vice-imperium" so to speak, possibly fueled with Barbarians being more able to settle Romania in the same period and creating entities not as foedi but as "duchies" they could dominate the hierarchy (as Franks did in WRE in the IVth)
Then Palmyre would survive as with her king as permanent "Dux Oriens" of a half-federal Roman Empire. Sort of a tetrarchy on steroids born out of necessities and realpolitk.

That's a long shot, but not implausible IMO. Just don't expect it to be stable. Either the emperor got the best out of it and only some periphery areas remains, either one duke gets better of it and become emperor, either it all comes down like a house of cards (with in the best of case, the emperor as a regional power technically overlording what remains from afar and more often than not replaced).
 
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@LSCatilina

What would be the effects of that though? Would the Palmyrene Empire, once the Roman Empire inevitably falls apart, become a sort of Arab Byzantine Empire and expand outwards towards North Africa and the Balkans?
 
What would be the effects of that though? Would the Palmyrene Empire, once the Roman Empire inevitably falls apart, become a sort of Arab Byzantine Empire and expand outwards towards North Africa and the Balkans?
That's a possibility but I wouldn't count on it, given the limited resources and the big empire just sitting next door just ready to break in and takeover significant part of the Oriens. The more plausible alternative to this, IMO, is a ERE equivalent going from Egypt to Anatolia.
 
Then Palmyre would survive as with her king as permanent "Dux Oriens" of a half-federal Roman Empire. Sort of a tetrarchy on steroids born out of necessities and realpolitk.

That's a long shot, but not implausible IMO. Just don't expect it to be stable. Either the emperor got the best out of it and only some periphery areas remains, either one duke gets better of it and become emperor, either it all comes down like a house of cards (with in the best of case, the emperor as a regional power technically overlording what remains from afar and more often than not replaced).
How would this dux system work in Palmyra and elsewhere if implemented? Is it it an appointed position, passed by blood, passed to the strongest local figures or what? Would they have both administrative and military power?
 
How would this dux system work in Palmyra and elsewhere if implemented? Is it it an appointed position, passed by blood, passed to the strongest local figures or what? Would they have both administrative and military power?
I don't know : this is a rough sketch of what would be possible : I doubt you'd have anything systematized, while the parallel rulership of Palmyrene kings and "eastern dukes" would probably favor a inherited position there IMO.
 
If off of Zenobia's rebellion, there could be a super weird effect, my go to, a manichaeism wank.

There arent any sources for this beyond the Manichees themselves, but they report having patronised the royal family themselves, including accepting converts.

Whilst unlikely, it could be that Manichaeism gets a massive boost under Palmyra.
 

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@CountPeter

Pardon me but could you extrapolate on why manichaeism would flourish under a surviving Palmyrene Empire? I don't see the logic behind this.
 
@CountPeter

Pardon me but could you extrapolate on why manichaeism would flourish under a surviving Palmyrene Empire? I don't see the logic behind this.
If the Manichee accounts are accurate, then the Palmyrene royalty are likely to patronise the religion, which already did really well OTL considering it's only patrons were steppes nomads and it suffered massive persecution. With Palmyrene backing, even if it doesnt last there, it would have a far stronger base from which to spread elsewhere.
 

Deleted member 123260

If the Manichee accounts are accurate, then the Palmyrene royalty are likely to patronise the religion, which already did really well OTL considering it's only patrons were steppes nomads and it suffered massive persecution. With Palmyrene backing, even if it doesnt last there, it would have a far stronger base from which to spread elsewhere.

How would Manichaeism evolve then?

Would it be possible to combine Mazdakism with Manichaeism so we can get us some sweet polyamory and communal land just to give the Palmyrene Empire some extra intrigue?
 
How would Manichaeism evolve then?

Would it be possible to combine Mazdakism with Manichaeism so we can get us some sweet polyamory and communal land just to give the Palmyrene Empire some extra intrigue?
Perhaps.

Mazdakites themselves are unlikely to want such a link, seeing themselves as reformist Zoroastrians, but Manichaeism can theologically accomodate quite a lot, including Mazdakite social beliefs.
 

Deleted member 123260

Perhaps.

Mazdakites themselves are unlikely to want such a link, seeing themselves as reformist Zoroastrians, but Manichaeism can theologically accomodate quite a lot, including Mazdakite social beliefs.

Then I wonder how the Palymrene Empire would evolve. Maybe it could end up before everyone else communist.
 
Then I wonder how the Palymrene Empire would evolve. Maybe it could end up before everyone else communist.
That I think is unlikely.

In short, in that era, nobility very much needed to be courted by power groups because it was usually nobility who could afford the expensive military forces. An independant Palmyra isn't going to find much favour with rocking the boat too hard when they would have multiple enemies surrounding them.
 
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