Superpower? This implies nuclear power and/or economic power. Care to elaborate?
With Balkan resources and population, nascent industry and growing middle class the empire had in 1876 retained, and with all that oil, it'll be hard not to be.
Superpower? This implies nuclear power and/or economic power. Care to elaborate?
With pre-1878 territory, no doubt it will be first world, or at least equal to US, which is first world save for some parts like the deep south.
That's a new one on me. Do you have any more details on when and where the offer was made? Having always had something of a soft spot for the Ottomans, along with the Austrian Habsburgs which is something of a contradiction1) Depends on the PoD. Britain actually invited Ottomans to occupy Egypt and deal with Mahdi in Sudan, but Ottomans just got tragically defeated in 1878 so they ignored the request. Otherwise, the Ottomans would've gladly accepted the offer.
I think that's a joke about cultural regressiveness in the Deep South.
It requires a segment of the population feeling oppressed (or opportunistic) enough for a western power to take advantage of. General positive Arab feelings towards the Ottomans alone aren't going to be sufficient to maintain Ottoman control over regions with vital natural resources.That requires the local Arabs to feel oppressed.
Assuming you don't just mean using it as an excuse to seize territory by the western power.
1) That's the reasonable part, the joke is the idea that the Ottomans could be on par with the rest of the US. Which is ASB really. Oil alone isn't going to do that.
2) It requires a segment of the population feeling oppressed (or opportunistic) enough for a western power to take advantage of. General positive Arab feelings towards the Ottomans alone aren't going to be sufficient to maintain Ottoman control over regions with vital natural resources.
That's a new one on me. Do you have any more details on when and where the offer was made? Having always had something of a soft spot for the Ottomans, along with the Austrian Habsburgs which is something of a contradiction, it would certainly be a handy way of helping them recover.
What would be the consequences of a surviving caliphate on muslim world?
The economy would be quite large at any rate. There is definitely room for at least some economic development during the pre-oil period if the Ottomans hold onto the Balkans, and when the oil does roll around, this is going to be spent more on education, infrastructural development and other useful things than OTL. This is because there is only one smaller royal family to loot from the oil pot rather than half a dozen. Also, the Ottoman Empire was an established, bureaucratic state with a lot more people to spend the money on.Superpower? This implies nuclear power and/or economic power. Care to elaborate?
Oil alone will not. But a well educated population, ruled by a nation with modern administrative experience in a unified block of hundreds of millions of people does have a pretty good chance of doing it.That's the reasonable part, the joke is the idea that the Ottomans could be on par with the rest of the US. Which is ASB really. Oil alone isn't going to do that.
It also requires the West to be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of troops, if not hundreds of thousands, to secure some black sticky stuff coming out of the ground. Oil is important, but hardly a reason to exterminate a generation of young men. Outside of fantasies involving the inept Ottomans just proving a better road for the Western Superpowers to gain easier access to oil, there really isn't much basis for the view that the West will have a easy time breaking apart the Ottoman Empire to get at its oil.It requires a segment of the population feeling oppressed (or opportunistic) enough for a western power to take advantage of. General positive Arab feelings towards the Ottomans alone aren't going to be sufficient to maintain Ottoman control over regions with vital natural resources.
It requires a segment of the population feeling oppressed (or opportunistic) enough for a western power to take advantage of. General positive Arab feelings towards the Ottomans alone aren't going to be sufficient to maintain Ottoman control over regions with vital natural resources.
It also requires the West to be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of troops, if not hundreds of thousands, to secure some black sticky stuff coming out of the ground. Oil is important, but hardly a reason to exterminate a generation of young men. Outside of fantasies involving the inept Ottomans just proving a better road for the Western Superpowers to gain easier access to oil, there really isn't much basis for the view that the West will have a easy time breaking apart the Ottoman Empire to get at its oil.
The economy would be quite large at any rate. There is definitely room for at least some economic development during the pre-oil period if the Ottomans hold onto the Balkans, and when the oil does roll around, this is going to be spent more on education, infrastructural development and other useful things than OTL. This is because there is only one smaller royal family to loot from the oil pot rather than half a dozen. Also, the Ottoman Empire was an established, bureaucratic state with a lot more people to spend the money on.
As for nuclear power, I would find it strange if the Ottoman Empire didn't become one by 2013 in any ATL save one where they keep only modern Turkey as a rump. The Ottoman Empire at the lowest estimates would still have a population that is probably over 200 million. With further back PODs, this could be over 400 million, which would put them ahead of the United States and Russia in terms of population. With a good chance of having a qualitative advantage over China and India as well.
A highly educated, resource driven (oil) country with an established bureaucratic state sounds a lot like modern Russia. Russia gets superpower status because they have a massive nuclear arsenal. No nuclear arsenal and they are next to Brazil - NOT a superpower. So, I have a hard time seeing the OE becoming a superpower unless they use all that oil money to build a major stockpile of nuclear arms.
Countries with large natural resources have a mixed track record with regards to developing modern, competitive economies. Sure Canada, Australia and Norway offer nice examples of prosperity.
The Ottoman Empire could still exist as a loose federation. many countries like under the apologetic framework and survive (South Africa, Brazil and South American countries with natives, Australia with natives, CIS) with some loose contingency between all the groups. I wouldn't be surprised that if the Ottomans survived the first world war, oil would make them rich, industrialize turkey, and then, through decolonization, produce a British Commonwealth like organization that still obeys the constitutional Sultan.
The Ottoman Empire could still exist as a loose federation. many countries like under the apologetic framework and survive (South Africa, Brazil and South American countries with natives, Australia with natives, CIS) with some loose contingency between all the groups. I wouldn't be surprised that if the Ottomans survived the first world war, oil would make them rich, industrialize turkey, and then, through decolonization, produce a British Commonwealth like organization that still obeys the constitutional Sultan.
A highly educated, resource driven (oil) country with an established bureaucratic state sounds a lot like modern Russia. Russia gets superpower status because they have a massive nuclear arsenal. No nuclear arsenal and they are next to Brazil - NOT a superpower. So, I have a hard time seeing the OE becoming a superpower unless they use all that oil money to build a major stockpile of nuclear arms.
Except it won't be very likely for the empire to turn commie. Had Russia not done so she would've been first world super power today.
Why would a Russia that hadn't gone through Communism be stronger when we look at how much of a a distant fourth place it was in 1913?
That's not encouraging the idea that Russia is in good shape.