How would a CP victory in WW1 affect science and technology.

mad orc

Banned
Also give me a little more civilian rather than military answers.
For ex- Maybe Zeppelins would get more chances to prove themselves.
 

Bulldoggus

Banned
It is possible that the biggest shift wouldn’t be in Germany at all. In the pre-War era, Vienna, Budapest, and Prague were some of the most cosmopolitan, intellectual cities on Earth. Without the Civil Wars, political instability, and successive Nazi and Soviet domination that befell those lands after the Hapsburgs were toppled, the sky really is the limit.
 
With victorious CPs and without disastrous WW2 (France and Russia hardly are able to do much with Mitteleuropa) Europe would remain important center of science and technological development instead that shifting to USA. USA would be still important but not so dominant as in OTL.
 
If the war ends early, a lot of potential German intellectuals and German capital is preserved. The French are broken with reparations pouring into Germany as they become a captive market, which the Germans can invest into their Mitteleuropa creating a strong economic bloc that sees an increase in the Middle Class which pushes liberalization (it will happen when new money outstrips the Junkers). German patents and scientists remain in Germany stunting American hegemony. Physics sees the first nuclear plants in Germany as well as advances in magnetic tape and the transistor placing Silicon Valley in Germany rather than America. No military industrial complex hinders American competition in the field.

The UK gradually loses prominence with decaying industry and a challenge by numerous powers as perceived weakness becomes true weakness. The Ottomans and Iranians push back, India becomes an ulcer, Guatemala and Mexico pressure Belize, Argentina rattles the saber for the Falklands, South Africa eventually leaves the Commonwealth, Canada is further integrated into the American economic sphere, Japan quietly exits it's pact...Germany further bolsters trade with the Chinese aiding the Nationalists and garnering a strong ally in Asia. Faltering trade and increased military spending proves the bane of the British and Australia and New Zealand tire of defending the possessions of their monarch.

Russia, facing domestic pressure, loss of French capital, and the twin threats of Japan and China gradually concede to a neutral-benevolent status quo with Germany.

The US remains in splendid isolation though without the GI Bill, many Americans will not go to college. The Berlin to Baghdad railroad is finished with the Germans gaining concessions to Arabian oil alleviating a major resource issue and breaking Britain's trade monopoly. Germany likely purchases Portugal's African possessions with these increasing riches giving them access to Angolan resources as well. Belgium falls into their sphere granting them the Congo's uranium (aiding nuclear development as mentioned earlier).

Germany's policies in Africa leads to friendly future states that secure markets (protectorates likely into the sixties but properly prepared for "Independence"). Germany becomes the hegemon of Europe and eventually the Eastern Hemisphere with rail, autobahns, and jet aircraft tying it all together.

That's a decent overview.
 
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Here are some general ideas. First, I think we see Germany remain a strong military technology innovator and manufacturer, also I think this see German heavy industry be prominent. Second, I think we see any area where military R&D transfer into a civilian product be a good area for Germany to succeed. In nearly every field Germany lost 20 years of leadership, competition or cutting edge position, so generally push things forward 20 years. And if we avoid the next war we do not lose those years or generation.

Shipbuilding: This is steel and machinery, a natural place for Germany to compete. Germany is pushing the big marine diesel and might innovate in hull form as well as construction to improve its warships, so you see welded hulls, hydrodynamic research and obviously the big diesel supplanting steam turbine propulsion. So give Germany a more modern looking big diesel cargo ship decade or more before OTL. Look at the Japanese shipbuilding industry in the 1960s to 1970s.

Aviation: Germany was leading the way into all metal and quite modern looking designs, so we likely see OTL airecraft introduced a few years sooner and the next generation coming in sooner or not being left behind as for example Junkers led with a corrugated skin that by the Ju52 was near its end, Junkers ran out of time to get a new aircraft in production. Before this I think Germany can get out front using airships to create the global air travel map, as the economics change the sea plane and then land plane over take, but in crossing wide open ocean Germany is there first. So a Hindenberg might be ten years sooner to market.

Motor Vehicles: Germany is at some disadvantage compared to the USA who has far better economy of scale, but it as motivation to motorize post-war so might be further along and developing better trucking. Maybe it breaks into diesel sooner, standardization, and its cartel structure can give it a virtual economy of scale. With an insecure oil supply we might see fuel economy be more important, thus aerodynamics, lightweight materials and other features we waited to the 1980s to see introduced or desired. You might see Italian Bugatti stay and pursue his superlative cars in Germany.

Nuclear: German science likely leads Germany towards nuclear power, ample coal means it is not as vital, but t might have strategic implications enough to get the needed state funding quicker than anywhere. So Germany leads in radioisotopes, nuclear medicine or other technology rooted in civilian nuclear. My suspicion is it is the Navy that backs this, to free its warships from coal and bypass oil. So a small nuclear reactor industry to power ships, then distributed electric generation, locomotives or cars dreamed of next?

I think Germany gets on the leading edge of many chemical and materials advances. Anything that replaces oil is a priority, or uses it more efficiently. But Germany is also a global trade nation who can buy her raw materials, so a lot of synthetic chemistry is being pursued. So Nylon or Kevlar or Teflon all might get some years sooner introduced into more products. Germany might invent a lot but it might simply become the better manufacturer too. Recall the industrial revolution began in England with spinners, by 1913 Germany imported more cotton and made more cloth than Britain. And Germany is going to make the transition into post-industrial things too, its banking sector, insurance, financial and data services sectors will flourish, grow and compete. As a wealthy nation it can attract talent, buy inventions or become competitive in any industry, we will see a lot of European minds drained into Germany. It is not that Germany is number one, but I think you see it very competitive, leading in some areas, near the top in others, playing a far bigger role, setting benchmarks at every turn.
 
There is one big change here
No NSDAP and exodus of Jewish scientist from Germany !
In this Scenario, Germany remain Scientific power and Develop new Technology like Jet Engine, Transistors, Computers and experiments in nuclear fusion.

ZUSE not IBM would be World leading company for "Rechner" (computers) while Junkers is leading manufacture of big airliners like Boeing or Airbus
and Auto Union would be biggest rival to Ford
 

mad orc

Banned
This is the best answer. But all the other answers are also good.
Here are some general ideas. First, I think we see Germany remain a strong military technology innovator and manufacturer, also I think this see German heavy industry be prominent. Second, I think we see any area where military R&D transfer into a civilian product be a good area for Germany to succeed. In nearly every field Germany lost 20 years of leadership, competition or cutting edge position, so generally push things forward 20 years. And if we avoid the next war we do not lose those years or generation.

Shipbuilding: This is steel and machinery, a natural place for Germany to compete. Germany is pushing the big marine diesel and might innovate in hull form as well as construction to improve its warships, so you see welded hulls, hydrodynamic research and obviously the big diesel supplanting steam turbine propulsion. So give Germany a more modern looking big diesel cargo ship decade or more before OTL. Look at the Japanese shipbuilding industry in the 1960s to 1970s.

Aviation: Germany was leading the way into all metal and quite modern looking designs, so we likely see OTL airecraft introduced a few years sooner and the next generation coming in sooner or not being left behind as for example Junkers led with a corrugated skin that by the Ju52 was near its end, Junkers ran out of time to get a new aircraft in production. Before this I think Germany can get out front using airships to create the global air travel map, as the economics change the sea plane and then land plane over take, but in crossing wide open ocean Germany is there first. So a Hindenberg might be ten years sooner to market.

Motor Vehicles: Germany is at some disadvantage compared to the USA who has far better economy of scale, but it as motivation to motorize post-war so might be further along and developing better trucking. Maybe it breaks into diesel sooner, standardization, and its cartel structure can give it a virtual economy of scale. With an insecure oil supply we might see fuel economy be more important, thus aerodynamics, lightweight materials and other features we waited to the 1980s to see introduced or desired. You might see Italian Bugatti stay and pursue his superlative cars in Germany.

Nuclear: German science likely leads Germany towards nuclear power, ample coal means it is not as vital, but t might have strategic implications enough to get the needed state funding quicker than anywhere. So Germany leads in radioisotopes, nuclear medicine or other technology rooted in civilian nuclear. My suspicion is it is the Navy that backs this, to free its warships from coal and bypass oil. So a small nuclear reactor industry to power ships, then distributed electric generation, locomotives or cars dreamed of next?

I think Germany gets on the leading edge of many chemical and materials advances. Anything that replaces oil is a priority, or uses it more efficiently. But Germany is also a global trade nation who can buy her raw materials, so a lot of synthetic chemistry is being pursued. So Nylon or Kevlar or Teflon all might get some years sooner introduced into more products. Germany might invent a lot but it might simply become the better manufacturer too. Recall the industrial revolution began in England with spinners, by 1913 Germany imported more cotton and made more cloth than Britain. And Germany is going to make the transition into post-industrial things too, its banking sector, insurance, financial and data services sectors will flourish, grow and compete. As a wealthy nation it can attract talent, buy inventions or become competitive in any industry, we will see a lot of European minds drained into Germany. It is not that Germany is number one, but I think you see it very competitive, leading in some areas, near the top in others, playing a far bigger role, setting benchmarks at every turn.
 
This is the best answer. But all the other answers are also good.

Some of these ideas are found scattered all over this board and I can no longer take full credit. But thank you.

And it is not all just machines and steel, Germany was later a leader in magnetic tape technology, so it could find its way into consumer electronics. Indeed its radio industry was quite good and it had working television on the eve of WW2. The Enigma machine was a commercial product but not taken up as early as it could have. An earlier usage might spur the UK to find and fund guys like Turing sooner, or Germany might decide it needs to break into these codes and pursues the computer itself. And that is part of this, as a competitor Germany made everyone else compete, technology is moving ahead not always because one nation innovates but other nations innovate too. We could see the consumer electronic world kicking off a generation earlier. Imagine television with magnetic taped storage taking hold from the 1930s rather than the 1950s. Televisions with data in every house, connect them by phone lines, you have Minitel. A lot more pieces need worked out or invented but sometimes an infrastructure is co-opted by new users. Our modern world is as much odd new uses for stuff designed to do something else useful.

The USA led in liquid crystal display technology, Japan put it in calculators and watches. Military R&D does not always go to military hardware or even stay at home. Patents are mobile. Germany lost a lot of intellectual property after the war, here it keeps it, hopefully builds on it. But the world still benefits.

Babelsberg was another Hollywood, give it 20 years of making movies in Germany, drawing talent, learning to voice dub, storing on tape. Climate sucks to shoot outdoors, well you make moody movies and build big sound stages, or invent technology to do it, better matte painting, special effects, animation, who knows. These are seeds of necessity.

Dust off the paper designs in other countries, some of these are getting built, with Germany on the prow the British might not simply let their aviation industry wither. Or the French. The French were extremely innovative in many areas, either they compete or those minds move to German concerns, all of Europe could have a far more competitive stance globally, not conceding so much to the USA or later Japan.

Generally I would take any technology and allow a five, ten or twenty year speed up. Avoid the next war and things get rather interesting. Mostly I see the outlines getting drawn faster, rather than losing the 20 to 40 years Europe festered over the war, it begins the race anew and outlines so many new things to be filled in. The Airship does not revolutionize the world, but it shows how air travel will, and it begins that outline before the 1930s, giving a head start to the things we want next. So you have airliners looking more vital ten years sooner. We may not make it, but the guide posts are setting out to lure us forward just a little faster every time.
 
I am not so sanguine that technology would be significantly advanced with a CP victory - again if the Schlieffen Plan works you have way less destruction and German war aims are not outrageous, by 1918/Michael Offensive the war aims in the west have gotten pretty nasty. In any case, the sad truth is that war has a tenency to push technology pretty hard. Non-military/consumer uses are sustainable and good for long term improvement, but the reality is a lot of the initial push comes from wartime where R&D money flows way more freely. Governments in wartime spend a lot of R&D money in ways no corporation would, investing in multiple paths to the same end or some ideas that would get laughed out of a boardroom. As one example HTA aircraft and engines went from rickety underpowered machines in 1914 to not bad by 1918, and lots of engineers and others had been educated in aircraft/engines and could continue afterwards. Assuming a CP victory in WWI does not lead to WWII like OTL aviation in 1950 would most likely be at the mid/late 1930s level, with Ju-52s and DC-3s for overland transport and Boeing Clippers for international/transoceanic travel.

As far as nuclear power goes, without the Nazis and the encouragement to nasty antisemitism that it engendered in Hungary, Italy etc, more Jewish scientists will stay in Europe but they will be spread out over several countries, not gathered in one place (USA) like they were OTL. The cost of developing the processes to enrich uranium was huge - once you develop the process, whether gaseous diffusion, calutrons, ultracentriguation, the final purity of U-235 is whatever you want. Getting it to even reactor level concentration is the big step. Who spends this money, and remember multiple paths were undertaken at the same time. Eventually probably, but...

Looking at a CP victory world in 1950 I would make the following generalizations with the caveat that "WWII" does not happen 1939-45.
1. Overall technology is LESS advanced than OTL although in some areas it is more advanced.
2. Germany is more a leader than it was OTL before Hitler, but not dominant. France less than OTL. USA dominant in some areas but less than POTL. Britain, hard to say.
3. Which companies are winners/losers, ask the butterflies.
4. IMHO if you are a scientist, engineer, or physician you want to be competent in English and German.
 
Well, Mitteleuropa would probably require significant investment into defense and security. After all, why would Eastern Europe and the Balkans suddenly change their minds and become open to German rule? More money spent for the military means less for welfare and, well, everything else. Plus, I'm not so sure that no Nazis = no brain drain. You could still have an authoritarian regime without the death camps, and antisemitism has a long history in Europe.
 
Well, Mitteleuropa would probably require significant investment into defense and security. After all, why would Eastern Europe and the Balkans suddenly change their minds and become open to German rule? More money spent for the military means less for welfare and, well, everything else. Plus, I'm not so sure that no Nazis = no brain drain. You could still have an authoritarian regime without the death camps, and antisemitism has a long history in Europe.

Give me a Soviet Union and yes, the Germans are going into high defense spending mode, akin to the USA post-WW2, even a revanche despotic Russia might drive up security concerns, but that also pushes all East Europe to see Germany as its better protector, perhaps just as uneasy as Europe felt subordinate to the USA through the Cold War, but I do not see East Europe being treated as the Warsaw Pact got treated by the USSR long term. Germany is getting back to its evolving democracy, it is heavily influenced by both Liberal and Socialist thinkers, the SDP likely comes to assert dominance but Zentrum will be a political powerhouse for years to come, the Catholic political stream likely shifts centre-right as SDP consolidates the left, leaving the Liberals as coalition swing voters, and how are these political parties imposing oppression writ large? This is Weimar painting inside the lines under the steady cap of a monarchy, more like Britain really, just that its left is more openly socialist and its right more influenced by Liberals with a dollup of Catholic political theory running down its middle.

Germany will be even more the economic center of Europe and without the disorder on the right, ultra right political revolutionaries likely cannot gain momentum, pre-war the most vocal anti-semetic party lost seats and faded, with a monarchy in place you anchor the conservatives away from Brown revolutionaries. The far-left is starved by SDP and cannot foment revolution, further draining the far right of meaning. Assuming Fascism is invented, it has more fertile soil in A-H than Germany, but yes anti-Semitism will remain a back ground form of racism, yet Germany has more groundwork to become the least anti-semetic country, its Jewish populace are rather nationalistic and generally not religious, culturally I see them assimilating at least as deeply as American Jews have, suffering a sort of snobbish discrimination that fades and has no effect as Germany becomes more secular.

Germany likely sees net migration and more diversity, not to the level of the USA, but then the USA has white washed its diversity into a very WASP façade, but you have Italian, Austrian/Russian Poles, and more seeking work and opportunity in the biggest economy, Berlin will look like London, cosmopolitan, the grumble will be all these other Europeans just want our Marks. But has that fuelled ultra-violence in the UK or USA or France? Immigrants bring challenges but Germany should be no worse off in assimilating them than other European cultured states have.

You might see odd things like a bigger Chinese population if German ties into China deepen, so Berlin gets a vibrant Chinatown, or more black African immigrants should her colonies be regained. We may see less Turkish Muslim immigration as the OE might do better, or you may see an Arab influx instead. Germany developed huge trade with Latin America, one might see an odd patchwork of South Americans doing business in Germany, and we might see German culture survive more openly in the USA, linking Germany to the USA in ways similar to and competing with the British connection. France may stay out or seek union with the German led economic order, pre-war the Socialists were seeking rapprochement, that may return, or even more strangely the French right might realign with this Monarchial Germany to back stop the further shift left in French culture, politics and power. Post-Versailles is a mixed bag of lampposts that illuminate only parts of the path and leave a lot unknown.

This post-war has a longer survived British Empire and potentially longer lived racist imprint in the USA, these two may not look so bright or shining in example, Britain fighting wars to back stop independence, the USA lazily overlooking its own discrimination. We might see more Franco-style regimes in Southern Europe, Mussolini being an example of how to get things done, while the USSR carries its gloss of prosperity too, fuelling disorder globally. It is easy to think the USA will be number one and the Germans are just well-dressed villains, but I think those tropes are butterfly food.
 
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